H: Host
S: Sarah Steel
K: Katie Mayne
A: Abiola Ajayi-obe

Hello and welcome to today’s chat sponsored by Yellow Pages, I’m Jane Constantinis. Now are you a mother who’d like to run your own business, be your own boss? Are you though, perhaps concerned that you won’t be able to achieve the right sort of work / life balance if you’re putting a huge amount of effort into setting up a new business? Well today I’m talking to 3 inspirational women, who prove that you can be a good mother and a successful businesswoman in fact one of them has just been voted Biz Mum of the Year and the other two were runners-up. Now it’s an interactive show so we want to hear from you. If you want to give us a comment or ask us a question, just type your question into the box immediately below the screen and send it to us, but please remember to tell us who you are and where you’re from, and we’re probably going to start taking questions about halfway through the program. What I’d like to start with though is by asking each of our inspirational mothers about the business they set up and what was the inspiration behind it. Sarah, can I begin with you and tell us a little bit about the award that you won as well?

S: Well I had a phone call out of the blue a couple of weeks ago from the team at Yellow Pages, I knew I’d been nominated for this award which is by Prowess which is the organisation that supports women in business and encourages them, and I was invited down to a gala dinner in Brighton and was absolutely amazed to win the award. And I think it’s very much linked in with having good work / life balance, making your business work for you and also supporting other women who want to get involved in business which –

H: Which is I suppose why it’s called inspirational?

S: Well I hope so yes, I don’t think I do anything that thousands of other women in business don’t do but it is nice, people always want to ask and hear about the experience and you know I like to encourage people that they can do it too

H: So tell us briefly about your business?

S: I run a children’s nursery company called the Old Station Nursery Limited, we will be 5 years old this summer and we have 8 children’s nurseries around the country looking after about 1000 children altogether

H: And I think we’re looking at the website right now. What was it that inspired you to set up the business?

S: I think what’s so common with so many women, looking for a service, not finding it that I wanted, and thinking well actually maybe I could do that, so I literally started looking for nurseries for my children when we moved house and there were huge waiting lists and I didn’t really like what was on offer, and I thought ok I’ll have a go

H: I can do that

S: Yes I can do that

H: Great. And Katie was it a similar sort of thing with you, what inspired – tell us about your business and what inspired you to start it?

K: My business is called Tiny Talk, it’s baby signing classes, and it’s a franchise, and we have classes right across the country and we’re now international as well. It is all about baby sign language which is actually helping babies to communicate before they can speak, using natural gestures and taking it just that one step further, and actually it encourages speech as well, so we run these classes right across the UK to about 2000 families each week

H: Fantastic, Abiola, tell us a little bit about your business and what inspired you to get it started?

A: My business is called Smart Charts and literally it’s reward charts for children, that basically encourages good behaviour, and the inspiration in terms of why I started my business was I couldn’t manage my own children successfully and thought there must be a better way of actually encouraging them to do what I wanted them to do. Basically came up with a chart. What makes it unusual is that it’s all based on images, so children as young as 18 months can understand what’s required of them in terms of the behaviour that is expected, and it’s gone off from there, so it’s been –

H: Now the first thing that interests me, and Sarah you said oh you know thousands of women are doing it and thousands of women have ideas, but what is it about you three that turned a good idea into a successful business, what is it about your personality that made it work?

K: Well first of all I was going to say a niche in the market, just as you were saying certainly with my industry I found something that didn’t exist, and I just thought right, and I also think it’s my background, because I’m a school teacher, I’m a teacher of the deaf and I’ve got experience of sign language and I know how it works, I know how children require language skills. I’m also musical, play the piano and I’ve taught singing before, and really it’s just putting it all together. I’ve also done development management stuff so actually training all these teachers so that they can run their own businesses as well as being there for their children, I think it really is a combination of all those things together

H: So you’re saying niche in the market but some real expertise as well

K: Yes

H: But what about more kind of personality issues Sarah?

S: Well I certainly didn’t have any business - well I had an MBA which I’d done, but I had no knowledge of childcare other than as a parent, so I think you can kind of bring different things, you don’t have to be an expert at what you do, you can employ experts, and certainly the bank who financed my first nursery were very happy that I had some general business skills and I had a background in the army which had other management skills, and I effectively buy in my expertise in my nursery managers. I would say the critical thing is self-belief that you can do it, which I think women often lack, and sheer determination

K: And stamina, when you’ve got young children as well

A: I think one of the things for me, it’s really being self-motivated. You have to have that ability within yourself to say – even if you’ve reached a hurdle and you find something really difficult but you’re going to overcome it

S: Because it’s got to come from within, not from outside

A: And also having support from family and friends, if you’ve got people around you who support you and believe in what you’re doing it just makes it so much easier, so I’d say that was quite important

H: Lot of interesting stuff already, I just want to remind people watching that you can contribute and you can ask questions, just type it into the box below the screen and send it, tell us who you are and where you’re from, we’ll be taking questions in a short while. Can I pick you up on that point about support of family and friends because when you’re very busy running a business, there have got to be compromises in the domestic environment, it’s inevitable isn’t it? How have your partners and families coped with that?

S: Well I think you just need people around you who will help out. I’ve got a fantastic supportive husband, I’ve got family close by but I still think there’s definitely – I mean I don’t know how you feel but you can’t have it all and you can’t be there all the time, you can only go for – you know the best possible balance you can get, but you certainly need some long-suffering people around you don’t you?

A: I think for me with the children it’s actually talking to the children and negotiating with them

H: How old are yours?

A: My children are 12 and 7 but when I started the business they were 7 and 2 at the time so obviously they were quite young at the time, and it’s a case of explaining that mummy can’t come along this afternoon to pick you up from school but I’ll be there tomorrow and I think that as long as they have that expectation and you deliver on what you’re promising then it’s fine you do get that support, so that was quite important for me in terms of my relationship with them

K: I was just going to say yes I mean my husband’s been supportive right from the start, and I have to say he’s ex-military as well and they’re very domesticated so he really really – he helps with everything whether it’s meals or sort of childcare, so it’s having that rock you know beside you

H: So you’ve talked about self-motivation and self-belief and a good support network, one of the things I noticed on the Biz Mums website which I had a look at before I met you was “be as organised in your domestic life as you are in your business”. Is that something you’ve –

S: One of the best pieces of advice I had for the business was to work out what your strengths are, work out what your weaknesses are and get somebody to do the bits you’re not so good at, so I love big picture, accounting really bores me so I have an excellent accountant and an excellent finance manager, I think in the same way perhaps in your domestic life you have to say ok well I really hate cleaning or I don’t want to spend my weekends cleaning, so I will pay somebody else to do that for me but I’ll be at school at 3 o’clock so –

H: Priorities as well

S: I guess so

K: Couldn’t agree more, and boring lists and priorities – absolutely I can’t do all of this, so what’s the key thing to do today in this time

H: Were there moments for each of you when you thought you might give up, when it was just too much?

S: No you’re like a hamster on a treadmill

H: Really?

S: Because you get going

K: Yes you do

S: You know you might be having a really tough week but you can’t just drop it and walk away. I mean I had an extremely large bank loan and you know you can’t, you’re there, you’re going, the only way is to keep going

H: But you were always confident that it was going to succeed?

A: Yes I mean one of the things that we were talking about earlier was actually changing course, so at the beginning you have a very clear vision as to where your business is going and how it’s going to get there and you actually find in the course of running your business that perhaps that vision isn’t really where it’s going, and for example I’ve been approached by lots of schools to produce charts for classroom use, and that wasn’t something I’d anticipated at the beginning, and it’s also being able to be flexible enough to actually you know change routes and go down a different route, so not necessarily that you’re giving up on the business, you’re just changing the route that you’re –

H: Adapting, developing –

A: Yes exactly

H: To what’s needed in your – it’s your niche market again isn’t it?

A: Yes, yes

H: Let’s take the first question that’s come in, Alison from Cardiff wants to know – she had her first child three years ago and is itching to get back to work, we all know that feeling, but needs to think about childcare – were your business ideas something you always wanted to do or did they come out of having children yourself? She’s very keen to have the flexibility of being your own boss but is struggling to think of an idea that would be worthwhile. What was your inspiration or was it always there?

K: First of all I was going to say come on board with me, come and be a teacher for me. No it’s certainly having the children, totally inspired me. Probably with all three of us, you know it was our children that actually you know it was that insight, being a teacher for many many years you know actually I thought being a parent would be a doddle, of course it’s not it’s a million times harder, and actually getting to know little ones and try to get something that is going to fit into family life, because of course they are a priority

H: I mean yours certainly came out of having children and not getting the right service

S: It did, I think also in some ways women are quite lucky because if you do stop work to have children you have an enforced break, I mean I left the army and decided I was going to have at least a year at home. Now if I’d been a guy and I’d been going from one job to another, I probably wouldn’t have sat back, I wouldn’t exactly do nothing for a year, but have a chance to reflect on what you want to do and maybe take a new career direction, which sometimes when you’re on the treadmill you don’t stop and look around do you?

S: I think that’s where a lot of mums do start businesses

H: And yours again was born out of a need

S: Absolutely

H: But it was very much to do with your children

S: Yes

H: Are there as many women running successful businesses that aren’t anything to do with children?

S: Yes I think – it’s interesting that three of us in the final were all involved with –

K: Finding – even if it’s just a hobby or something, finding something you feel passionately about and if you’ve got enough drive behind then go for it

S: But also there are so many talented women out there who stopped work to have children and I’ve got lots of friends with school age children who have had five or ten years out of work, and when you try and get back into the work place people aren’t interested, or you’re offered a very junior job and actually they’ve got so many skills. I mean my best staff are mums because they know that if you don’t load the washing machine it won’t load itself, they’re good at prioritising, their time management’s good, yes so I think often people find it’s the best way of realising what they want to do

H: There’s also that confidence thing as well isn’t it that a lot of women lose confidence when they’ve been out of the workplace –

A: When they’re at home

H: And they’ve been at home, I experienced it myself when I went back to my first big job after having my daughter, and just a little bit nervous to be out there

S: There’s a lot of good support now

K: Yes

S: Organisations like Prowess, Business Link

K: Yes

S: Enterprise Gateways, local groups

K: Local support yes

S: And a lot of them have mentoring sessions

A: And some of them actually offer workshop training programs as well so you do get your confidence levels back in terms of actually speaking the speak and knowing how to approach businesses, and you know shops in my example – for example in terms of how to speak to buyers, I mean I never knew what buyers were until I started my business

H: How do you avoid this business of doing both badly?

S: I think however well you do either you’re never perfect, I told Katie (you might have watched) Nigella’s Christmas program with my son, my 8 year old and he said to me “wow I bet she does really good packed lunches” and I just thought ok I’m running a business, I’ve made two nativity plays, I think I’m doing ok but my packed lunches need some work! So you are never going to be 100% -

K: I think we’re a bit too hard on ourselves

A: I think we are

K: Generally - And I tried to compartmentalise my work, so whether that’s physically in the home because I work at home and I have one room that is the office, and I don’t let it spill out of that room, it stays there, and then the rest of the house is my home, and then also my life, when I’m at work, it’s work and then when I’m not at work I’m mum, and I try and try and keep them separate

A: I do something different with my children when they’re on holidays because obviously the business still has to carry on and I go into role play with them, so they know there are different periods during the day when they call me Miss Beverley, so they have to call me Miss Beverley and it’s basically like a teacher / student relationship, and they put their hand up to ask questions, and they know that for 2 / 3 hours of the day they can’t approach me as mummy because mummy’s in business mode and they have to approach me in that way, and they love it, so that’s when they do their homework or they do early development work, so that’s how I get round it

H: Do you think it’s a benefit to the children to see their mother working, being stimulated, being successful –

A: I think so

H: Or do you think they suffer?

A: No I think it’s important

S: They get bored when they have a week at home they say aren’t we going to anyone’s for tea today? I say no it’s just mummy all week!

K: I was going to say, myself and a friend, we look after each other’s children for two days of lunches and afternoons each a week and we pick our children up from nursery, I have my daughter and her little friend for two days and she has my daughter for two days, and she’s off in Cambridge today working, I’m here in London and the two husbands are at home with the children, they’re doing all the school run and everything. I said to the children do you like it this way they went “yes, mum’s going off to work and dad’s staying at home, no problem.” They quite like that yes

H: Let’s take another question, Lucy, not my daughter whose two, wants to know “I really want to start up my own business from home, do you have any suggestions” – I’m sure you’ll be good on this Katie – “how I can manage the home and work in the same place?” You have a physical barrier

K: Absolutely, I really would say that, I mean even at the beginning I had a lap top as well so I could actually move it around, with wireless, obviously systems at home and things, and actually – but I needed to do that because I think at the beginning when you’re just starting off it’s a roller coaster, as we were saying, but then it’s quite nice just to have a fixed computer and just keep it there and be really strict on yourself

A: I’m not so compartmentalised, I do have a room at home that I use to run the business, but I do take the laptop round, and when I am sending out my online orders I do it in the kitchen as opposed to –

S: If you’re children are really small, pre-school, you have got to decide on the hours. People sort of say you can work at home with a two year old, I couldn’t, it was hell, so she had to either go to mum’s or she’d go to nursery, otherwise you end up resenting – they’re sat watching CBBC and you’re doing something else and I think you’ve got to make that clear delineation of when you’re working and when you’re not

H: I think that’s what prompted my question about doing both badly, because I had an experience of that this very week when I was trying to do emails and she was drawing on my thing, and oh it was just hell

K: I think when the kids are with you at home, you’re mum

S: Yes

H: That leads us on to Margaret’s question who says she’s got an embryonic IT support business, which can be done in between school runs and during unsocial hours, ie. evenings I imagine – sounds ideal but in effect, she says she gets the work / life more mixed up than when she went to the office for regular hours. It’s that classic thing isn’t it?

K: They’re just different I’d say, I mean yes I know I work when the children go to bed and I know you two both do as well

A: I think it’s also being disciplined with your time. I mean I do the school run in the morning and I come back, and from sort of 9 o’clock till 2 o’clock that’s work time, and then I start preparing dinner from about 2 o’clock till 3 and then I leave to pick up from school, and I know that those are my hours, and then obviously when they’re in bed at 8 o’clock I can start working again n the evening, so it’s really being rigid with your time at home

H: But how do you deal with people in the business wanting to be in touch with you when you’re being mother? Do you not take the calls? Do you take then and go into the office, or that very practical thing?

S: That’s what email’s for.

A: That’s what email’s or

S: I’ve got managers who say I like to be a virtual boss like Charlie’s Angel’s and just drop down and speak, but you know there’s nothing – 9 till 3 is fine, they can get me on the mobile then and after that that’s what email’s for

A: And most people tend to know, you tell them, you know these are my core hours, you know I’ll be at my desk during this time

S: But also you know men in the workplace are getting better at that and I think women are too and you know I have so many people I work with, I have a female accountant and female – different people who work with me, and lots of them I know have children so I don’t phone after 3 o’clock. I think we get more done between 9 and 3 than I would done in an office between 9 and 5

H: If you’ve got that period that you’re talking about you’re probably more productive, you probably get on with it don’t you? Talking of men, Larry wants to know “how can I persuade my wife that she doesn’t need to feel trapped by having a child that she can still work?”

S: Does she want to?

A: Yes

H: That’s an interesting question isn’t it?

A: Yes

H: Why does he want her to work? Larry? Click back!

S: It’s interesting running a nursery because I obviously see you know different parents coming in, and one thing I would say is I am totally unjudgemental these days, some people love working, some people don’t love working, some people love being at home with their children, some people don’t, and you know who are we to say who should do what? So if she’s happy at home, stay at home and if she wants to go to work, go to work.

H: But this business of feeling trapped, is that something that any of you can identify with, Abiola what about you, before you started the business?

A: Well that’s one of things that happened to me, I used to be a clinical risk manager and I think that’s where the business came from, I could manage a department of 30-odd people, I couldn’t manage a 7 year old and a 2 year old. I thought this is ridiculous; I’ve got to do something so that’s where the business came from in terms of that idea. And also you have a skill set and you want to use it, and I used it to manage my children, fantastic, had it up on my kitchen wall, I was a lunching mum at the time so other mums would come and see it, and enough people asked me to produce it for them for me to think actually there might be a business here. But it’s also doing something around your family, so it’s all of that sort of coming in together. I don’t know whether I’m answering the question but –

H: Did you feel trapped?

K: No I was going to say no, I felt trapped of going to coffee mornings and things like that, you know it’s like oh

S: Another cake!

K: But I think if you’re going to, if you want to do something, you know for yourself as well, absolutely just try and fit it into the family hours so my working hours are, you know the office hours are 9.30 – 2.30, so we all can do our school runs and be there for our children in the mornings and at pick-up as well, we don’t want somebody else to be doing that so we’re there for our children as well, and make it work for you and your life

H: Yes. Paula has called from Preston, has sent us a message, “what hours” – in fact you’ve already covered this but we’ll just be very clear about it again – “what hours do you tend to find yourselves working? I suspect you don’t get a moment to yourself.” Sarah –

K: I do

S: I think you’ve got to be realistic, there is no gain without pain and the first year was just nightmare-ish, it was just a blur for me the first year of the company. Second year it began to calm down, the beginning, the end of the second year I booked every Wednesday morning I’d go to yoga which is my sanity time, and I swim probably one lunchtime a week and I go out for a run, and that is my time. And I used to feel bad leaving work and saying “right I’m off” and coming back a bit sweaty at lunchtime, but the staff don’t see you in the evening when you’re at your computer till 11 o’clock, so I think you have to be bold and you know it’s the old maxim you’ve got to look after yourself to look after everybody else and just be prepared so no I am doing that and yes I’ll do the year end accounts when I get home, but I’m going to yoga now

H: What are your hours?

K: I was going to say the office hours are 9.30 – 2.30 Monday – Thursday, so on Friday it goes back to my home again, and so I also have, my little girl, Lucy who is 3, she’s at nursery till 11.30 and I’ve got a little bit of window and I often do my run as well and have a little bit of retail therapy or whatever, but it’s my time and it’s also just making really important time for yourself

H: But you also work in the evenings a lot

K: Oh yes, when it’s bedtime

H: Abiola do you work in the evenings –

A: I did that a lot for the first 3 years, it was a complete blur, and what’s happening now about 18 months ago I started ceroc dancing, so I do that twice a week and it’s fantastic

H: Fantastic, it’s better than sitting at the computer isn’t it?

A: Exactly, you know so I get up, I’m physically out of the house and I dance for two hours and that’s my exercise and that’s fantastic, so yes

H: Fantastic and it clears up here doesn’t it?

A: It does, absolutely

H: It’s amazing. Really enjoying finding out all this interesting stuff and I hope you are too. If you want to ask us a question though all you need to do is type it in the box below the screen, send it, tell us who you are and where you’re from, and in fact we’ve got, this will be interesting for you Sarah, Darren wants to know his wife is thinking of setting up her own nursery business, not in competition with you I hope! He’s willing to support her but she’s got no previous experience apart from knowing what isn’t done right at her local nurseries, have you got any advice? Sounds a bit like your story

S: Yes, well I mean the first thing I would say is there’s masses of advice out there, there are trading bodies you can find out, you know websites, national nurseries association, we talked a little bit about Business Link, find out what mentoring activities there are in your area, and go along and have a bit of a look at – there are people who will give you one to one mentoring, to have a chat through your idea. I would say it isn’t rocket science, any of our businesses, it’s just having the confidence to take it. I think you do have to be realistic about things like money, sadly you’ve got to raise the revenue from somewhere to either buy or lease a premises, in that respect nurseries are quite capital intensive, because you can’t set it up from your back room, you do need a building, but I would say it’s possible, loads of people have done it, but just make sure you get some good advice

H: What would be your key, your one little nugget of advice?

K: Setting up a business? I would say look at what’s out there already, and if it’s already being covered then how are you going to differentiate yourself to make yourself a success? Because you’ve got to be the one that everybody comes to be successful

S: I would say if I had a pound for everybody who said “oh I could do that” –

K: Exactly

S: I’d be very rich

H: Abiola what would be your –

A: I would say research your market, so have a fantastic idea, yes, but actually go out and speak to people, cold face – primary research, you know I spoke to mums coming out of school with their children and said would you get this off me, would you buy this off me, how much would you spend for it? It’s so important, yes it can be a fantastic idea, your friends and family want to support you so they won’t tell you anything negative. Do your research

S: Yes absolutely

H: Before you take it any further

A: Yes exactly

H: That was a good question if you want to send one just click now and send it through, we’ve got about ten minutes left so we’re going to get through as many as we can. Becky says “hi Sarah, congrats on the award”

S: Thank you

H: “Did you” – we’ve slightly covered this – “did you come across any issues with family or friends thinking that a mum should be at home and not setting up a business?” She’s got two children and wants to set up a small design business, but she’s from a traditional family that thinks she should wait until the children are grown. Did you have any –

S: No I had a fantastic amount of family support and my friends are brilliant and are really - they say “I don’t know how you fit it all in” and mostly through having lots of help. All I would say is the longer you wait, in some ways the harder it gets, and some people do find it easier to wait until the children are at school, I have to say it was a huge relief for me when my youngest did start school because I could focus, you know I knew I had those hours, but at the same time if you’ve got the idea now and you’ve got the enthusiasm, you haven’t got to start it, it hasn’t got to be a full time job but how nice to have something that you’ve made a start on and you can then expand and crank it up a gear when the children do go to school

H: And to keep the old brain ticking over as well

S: Yes

H: What about you Katie did you have any hostility around you?

K: I was going to say, I mean there were certainly some people who were sort of saying you know children and work and all that kind of thing, but I think they can see that the way I do it and that I’m very much there for the children when they’re at home and when they’re at nursery, even if it’s two hours a day that’s all I work and then I work in the evening as well, so it’s not as if we go out socially all the time with our children so that’s how I do it but it was a roller coaster of a ride you know holding on but you know for the first few years it really was, and actually the hardest bit was keeping a lid on it and not allowing it to grow too fast because I wanted to retain the quality of the service at every single stage, so keeping it calmed down because I’ve still got a pre-schooler and when she starts school in September, then maybe it will be easier

H: Everybody supportive around you Abiola?

A: Absolutely because I’d come from the opposite extreme I was a clinical risk manager

H: Of course

A: So then stayed at home, found I couldn’t cope with the kids and then started the business so it was worked around the children so yes

H: We just want to, I just want to get in a question from Imogen who says “what did you think” – Sarah this is to you – “what did you think about the contestants for this years’ award? Were they all child-orientated businesses?”

S: Well interestingly enough they were

K: Yes I think they were

S: But I don’t think there’s any particular reason for that, we mentioned before I do meet lots of women who have businesses that have been sparked by an interest in their children, but no not particularly, it’s pretty daunting list actually, sitting in the room with the other people and some of the judges from the competition, like we talked about Sally Preston from Babylicious, there were lots of different companies and I was like wow, I’m not sure what I’m doing here!

H: Abiola I want to pick you up on something you said just in a second, but Susan’s joined us and she wants to know about the support that you’ve had from your partners, we’ve touched on that slightly. Her husband has a full time job, she’s going to need help with the children if she starts her own business, she’s not sure that she can rely on him if he’s at work. But I just want to pick you up on something you’ve said, I couldn’t cope with the children, and I think that’s a really interesting thing to admit to, because I said to somebody at the weekend “I couldn’t be a full time mother, I love working” and he sort of went “oh” as if there was something wrong with me

A: Wrong with that

S: You’re not a full time –

H: But you know what I mean, I need something else, it came as a surprise

A: I think children are different, especially young children because you’ve got to distract them when they start behaving in a way you don’t want them to behave and coming from a background of dealing with adults who did what I asked them to do, and if they had a problem they’d come and talk about it with me, and I’ve got two children who would do the precise opposite and I just couldn’t understand it so that’s what I mean in terms of unable to cope, I just didn’t understand how to relate to them

H: Yes. Just let’s wrap up now because we’re nearly out of time, can you believe it? Just recap for us on how supportive the people around you were and your partner in particular?

S: Yes I think it’s really important that people understand that you’re not going to be doing a 9 to 5 office job and I’d spend a lot of time at the computer in the evenings and it must get pretty boring and he gets to do the ironing, and I think having that pick-up from school and extra help is absolutely critical, and lots of people you can rely on, friends and family

H: Yes absolutely

K: It’s just having that supportive network around you

H: A partner in particular

K: Absolutely

H: A crucial part –

K: Yes the rock

H: It’s a team effort

K: And emotional support, physical support, everything

A: I don’t think, if you haven’t got a partner whose supporting you I don’t think you could do as well as you would. I wouldn’t say to a mum or to a woman whose considering starting a business if your husband doesn’t support you don’t go there, but it’s a lot easier if you’ve got that support

H: Or a good friend

A: And a good friend or basically friends

H: Someone

A: Yes, somebody somewhere, you just need to have a rock yes

H: Fantastic, well I hope all your businesses continue to thrive as they are now

S: Thank you

H: You’re a great advert for running your own business, thanks for coming in and talking to us, and thank you for watching, I hope you found it as useful as I have. If you want more information and some really practical, almost a step-by-step guide as to how to set up a business and all the issues that you need to think about, then have a look at the website which is www.bizmums.co.uk , thank you very much for joining us, bye bye for now.