Only interested in shows on specific topics?
Simply click on the channels below to check for the shows you're interested in…
Don't let them con you!
Scammers are becoming increasingly sophisticated in their approaches and aim to exploit everyone. Scam artists can be hard to spot as they generally sound pleasant, well spoken and kind, and they act like they want to be your friend. They are also skilled in the arts of persuasion and can be extremely persistent. Typically they will be letting you know (via phone, email, post or even in person) that you’ve won a prize or stand to make a lot of money if you do what they say. The tell tale signs of a scam are if they ask you for money up front, ask for your bank or other personal details, ask you to ring a premium rate phone number or buy something to get your prize.
To combat this scam culture, throughout February, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) and its partners are campaigning to highlight scams and to make people aware that there is a scam out there for everyone. There is a quiz on the OFT’s website that illustrates - in an entertaining way – some of the common stings and how to avoid them.
Mike Haley will be live online on 28 February at 14.30hrs. He will be joined by Bad Girl's actress Claire King to discuss scams and give us their advice on how to avoid them.
Host: Murray Norton
Chat guest: Mike Hayley (MH) Claire King (CK)
MN: Hello and welcome to today’s webchat, it’s good of you to join us. Don’t forget that there will be a chance for you to put your questions very, very shortly but let me tell you what we’re talking about today. Yes, it’s scams. The sort of thing that we all think we’re very street-wise to, the sort of thing that we think would never happen to us. Would you believe 28 million people in Britain every year are targeted by these scams and they’re so sophisticated it’s not just the elderly and the needy that end up on that sucker list, a fair few more of you as well. Well, to help us identify and to get ourselves out of the scams that we might get ourselves into or preferably avoiding them in the first place, I’m delighted to say we’ve been joined by head scambuster, from the OFT, that’s the Office of Fair Trading and that’s Mike Hayley, Mike, good to have you with us and I’m delighted to say we’ve got an award-winning actress as well in the form of Claire King, Claire, good to see you as well.
CK: Pleased to be here.
MN: We knew you of course from the Governess, ‘The Bad Girls’.
CK: Yeah.
MN: So you’re probably representing fairness in those ways, aren’t you really.
CK: Of course.
MN: Of course, and of course from Emmerdale as well so …
CK: Yeah.
MN: ... it’s great to see you. Thanks very much for coming in both of you.
CK: It’s a pleasure.
MN: Mike, first of all, before we mention about questions, let’s first of all … do people fall for these scams still? I mean surely we know that scams are out there, we don’t trust anybody any more, we’re not going to fall for them.
MH: Well, it is important to be sceptical but the research we’ve done shows that apart from 28 million people being targeted, five million people admit to have sent money off to a different scam or another. And that means that they are becoming more sophisticated, use psychological tricks, all the mass marketing techniques that legitimate business use to con us, to give us false promises, to con us out of our money so unfortunately, people do and for any business, they don’t carry on their advertising, they don’t carry on their targeting unless they’re making a good return and we’re always getting emails, text messages, new mailings, you name it, they’re still coming at us so they must be making money.
MN: Alright, so there it is. We have plenty and plenty of people already joining us
on-line and putting their questions in and we’re going to talk about phone scams in a second. Before we do, if you have a question for us, yes we may have a chance to squeeze your question in. If not right now in the next half hour, certainly after the programme all of the questions I know that Mike has said he’ll be happy to deal with after the programme, if not during the programme. So the little box at the bottom of your screen, all you’ve got to do is fill it in now, put in your question and your name and where you’re from and we can identify where you are and all you’ve got to do is do that for us right now near the box at the bottom. Alright, whilst those are coming in, questions coming up as we speak. Claire, scams … you’ve obviously been looking at this very closely …
CK: Mmm.
MN: … and I’m surprised how many different types of scam there are.
CK: I think that’s the whole thing. You’re very sceptical about it at first and we’ve all known about scams for years and years but the whole point of this is I think they’re just changing and they’re targeting certain areas, certain people. You know, if you’ve got a job in a certain business they target you. They’re getting smarter, you know. It’s not just emails and text messages, it’s … I get mail through the door, send off this and you’ve won a prize, you’ve won a Ferrari or whatever.
MN: Sure.
CK: And you can see how people might fall for it but they’re getting so much more sophisticated. You know, they’ve got proper badges if they come to your door, they’ve got proper leaflets, everything looks legit. You know, I’ve had friends who’ve had letters from third world countries, you know, saying, ‘I’m trying to smuggle out some diamonds and rubies …’ and blah, blah, blah, ‘… can you help me. I will deposit a million pounds’ and you just think nobody will fall for it but they’re so sophisticated, the way they put it, there will be. There’s one or two people that will fall for it and they’re needy people, you know, they want that money, they think it’s a get-rich-quick scheme and they will fall for it, unfortunately and people still do. As we’ve heard, you know, five million out of 28 that are targeted do fall for it.
MH: And I think, Murray, the thing is that we think of the scams as being those that attack our greed.
CK: Yes.
MH: The prizes, lotteries, in fact they exploit all sorts of vulnerabilities and our vices like, you might want to gamble of course …
CK: Yes.
MH: … but also things like vulnerabilities like if you are in need, if you have health problems, if you’ve been bereaved recently …
CK: Yes, a lot of them now are health products, you know. They will target people with arthritis and things, I’ve had things through about …
MN: They’re trading on people’s misery.
CK: They are, yeah. It’s cruel, well, they’re conmen.
MN: Okay, there are many different scams. I know that the Office of Fair Trading, the OFT as I’m going to call them from now on, which is much easier for me to say …
(Laughter)
CK: Yeah.
MN: … I don’t know though, OFT, will … we’re going to concentrate on some of the different types of scam and your website certainly does that and we’ll draw attention to that in a little while, Mike. These premium rate phone numbers, we’re getting a lot of questions about that straight away. Peter wants to know, “How do I know if a finance company isn’t a scam when it’s using a premium rate phone number?”
MH: Well, it’s important to realise that a premium rate number is a payment mechanism. For every time you phone one it can cost you up to £1.50 a minute. Now there are thousands of companies who use premium rate numbers legitimately to give you services or to provide some information and as long as they say how long it’s going to take, how much it’s going to cost a minute and the final cost of your call, you can make a decision about whether you want to call that number or not. So, if it’s saying it’s going to cost 50p a minute for three minutes, going to cost £1.50, you know, ‘Well, for £1.50 I’m going to get certain information’. What you’ve got to watch out for is the scam prize lines, remember, one in five prizes you’ve won, you get them on scratch cards, letters. All these have something in common, they say to claim your winnings, to claim your prize you have to call a premium rate number. Some of them don’t tell you how long it’s going to be, sometimes they do have it in very small print. Normally it’s the full cost, £1.50 per minute for 10 or 15 minutes and certainly, our investigations show that in nine times out of ten, you don’t get the gift which is worth the price of the phone call. So whatever they promise you, a holiday, it’ll be holiday vouchers, a watch, it’ll be something that you could have got off of one of those cranes at a fun fair, a digital camera, it won’t be the digital camera that you have in your mind, they’ve set up something, ‘Oh, this is an expensive item’, it’ll be less than the £10 or £15 you’ve paid.
CK: Yeah.
MN: It smacks of con straight across, those three letters, ‘CON’, but we like to think in our own minds, as you’ve said, we’ve set up in our minds what this stereo or this holiday is going to be and we want to win, don’t we.
MH: Well, as folk, we want to believe and when you say a digital camera, what were you thinking at that time, you weren’t thinking of something this small, plastic and made in China. We were thinking of that digital camera that we’ve dreamed of or we wanted to buy and we’ve seen in the airports or whatever so they use these psychological tricks. Holiday giveaway, of course they describe it incorrectly, that’s why it’s a con.
MN: Is it difficult to sort of stop these people because the minute you stop them there they pop up there don’t they. I’ve got a great question here actually from R. Blakeley who’s in Halifax, hello there, wants to know, “I’ve received a letter … ”, it says here,
“ … the usual prize award, dial an 0906 number, premium rate line and the name on the form in the small print is ‘Church Castle’ and, which was apparently caught doing the same sort of thing back in July 2005 so, if you stop them doing one do they just get another number and do it again?”
MH: Well, that’s quite a good example and thanks for writing in about that because we did get what are called binding undertakings against Church Castle for misleading prize competitions with a premium rate number. If they’re doing it again and someone’s receiving that please contact us, give us that information and evidence. If you think you’ve been misled complain to us because that’s the evidence to then take a court order against them to prevent them doing it in future. But your more general question, yes, they can pop up, phoenix-like from the flames, a different area, a different number, and that’s why it’s so important that consumers understand what they’re getting into and they know that this is likely to be scam. Check out the company, do what has just been said there, get on the website and find out, ‘Hey, these people have already been stopped by the OFT once, what are they doing now? Have they changed their ways or are they still doing the same thing?’
CK: I mean that’s what people have to do, they have to be sceptical every time they see one of these, be sceptical, stop, think, think again. You know, it’s better …
MN: Yeah. Try and check it out without costing any money.
CK: Yeah, I mean I’ve had … I won’t mention companies, but I’ve changed my phone company recently and I went to a new one and they asked for all my personal details and my bank details. I didn’t like giving out all that information in one go. I said, “can I have the number, ring you back on it?” just to check they were authentic.
MN: Sure.
CK: It could have been anybody ringing me. As it happened it was … checked it out, it was fine. But don’t give your date of birth, don’t give passport numbers, bank details, all in the same information, check them out first.
MN: Mike, what happens if they’re a foreign company, because they’re not restricted to these shores are they? They could be anywhere.
MH: No, and many scammers do use borders to frustrate law-enforcement and again, it’s another reason why we want to cut off their life blood in terms of people not sending off or calling the numbers in the first place. But we do work cross-border with other enforcement agencies. In Europe we have taken cases because we have powers under the European union to take cases against them so they’re not beyond the law but it does make it a bit harder for us and the ones who are definitely out to scam people will hide behind post office boxes, they won’t have their details there, they might have foreign companies incorporated. These are all little things to look out for in any type of scam which might just get you worried and, as Claire said, check the company out. Google it because, you know what, there’ll be someone out there who’s fallen for it before, you won’t be the only one though …
CK: Yeah.
MN: Yeah. What happens if somebody phones you, and I’ve heard this and maybe this is scaremongering, and I’ve heard cases where they’ve said, ‘No, this is not true’, where someone phones you and the longer that you’re on the phone, your paying for it. Is that possible?
MH: No, that’s genuinely not possible and there are a lot of myths around premium rate numbers. We’ve heard the one about it might cost you £50, the one, people coming, knocking on your door, say, ‘Can I make a phone call, please?’ and then they call a … maybe their car’s broken down or something and then they might phone an 090 number.
MN: Sure.
MH: These … there’s lots of myths that go round. What you do know is that 090 will be a premium rate number and it will cost £1.50 a minute. You can decide whether you want to call or not. Take control over the situation.
MN: Right, overpayment. It’s something that I haven’t really thought of as a great way of getting money out of you, where they give you money back because that doesn’t, on the face of it, seem as if it’s going to be any danger to you. We’ve got a great question that’s come in here. Thank you very much indeed to Sue, Sue Mortimer, she wants to know about overpayment, “I recently advertised a suite on an on-line site for £150. I was then approached by a buyer asking me to receive a cheque for £2,500 by an associate of his who owes him money. I was to deduct the payment for the suite and then they’d get the balance back by Western Union Mail.” This is just a way of getting your bank details, isn’t it?
MH: Well, actually it’s even more sinister than that. This is a real scam and what is happening now and this is one of the most prevalent scams and a new scam so it really is one to look out for. If you’re advertising something, whether it’s like Sue was doing there, a suite of furniture, a car, any other kind of big ticket item, there are people going through these adverts on the internet and in Loot and other newspapers. They will call you with this overpayment scenario. They will make lots of reasons why there is an overpayment and you’ll receive a very authentic looking cheque, it will be an excellent forgery. So excellent that when you take it to the bank they will actually put it into your account. Your bank balance will then show the extra amount, in this case £2,500 …
CK: And it will be credited until it clears properly.
MH: It will be credited, yes, but you’ve got to check and never pay anything until it’s clear but first be aware that this is happening. What is happening, that in this case they will say pay the money by Western Union, that’s immediate cash transfer. Once that cash is gone, your cheque will bounce, so you would have paid out the balance there to someone, that could be a shipping company and they could have set up a false shipping company, it could be a friend, it could be for all sorts of other reasons but the thing is they’re going to pay you over the odds. Really question this, be sceptical about it, why would they … why can’t they pay their friend here? Why can’t they pay the shipping company? Usually it’s someone overseas. Western Union have joined forces with the Office of Fair Trading and the Met. Police to give warnings out about this type of thing.
MN: This is very new and but also on-line selling and on-line buying and people are trading more on-line now so the danger is pretty new but on the face of it I’d say it doesn’t look like it’s a danger.
MH: Well, most internet auction sites and when you buy and sell things on the internet are completely safe, particularly if you stay within the established rules so
E-Bay has it’s own payment mechanisms like Paypal.
MN: Sure.
MH: As long as you stay within the rules of the auction you’re pretty much safe because it’s monitored. What you might get in those sites is an email from someone … say that you didn’t buy the product, you made a bid, you didn’t get what you wanted. Later, say, the person who did buy it has pulled out of the sale and they contact you outside of the E-Bay system by email.
CK: Yeah.
MH: That will be the start of them trying to scam you and again, at one stage they’ll ask you to send money by money transfer such as Western Union. If it’s for business like that don’t use a cash, untraceable source like Western Union, and be wary about going outside of the rules of E-Bay or any auction site.
MN: Alright.
CK: Well, I’ve had, you know, stuff written to me, asking for charity stuff to put into charity events. They’re holding an event, send off the script, signed photograph, whatever, some personal stuff…
MN: A lock of hair
(Laughter)
CK: No, it falls out anyway, and so I send all those off and the next minute it’s inundated E-Bay, there’s just loads of stuff and I just think it’s a bit of a con in itself, that, you know. I’ve got a bit miffed about that one, but it’s the way to start selling things. But you’ve just got to be sceptical.
MN: We’re getting lots and lots and lots of questions about that and if you’ve got a question, please put it in … into the little box and we’ll see if we can deal with it in what’s turning out to be the next fifteen or twenty minutes time and if we don’t, it’ll be dealt with off-air. Lotteries, let’s talk about lotteries, Henry wants to know, “We’ve been sent a letter from Promo Lotto, Lotto UK International, I’ll give you the address if you want, it’s in Green Road, Wolverhampton, asking for bank details. We’ve won £288,640.”
CK: Wahaaay!
MN: Fantastic. In Sterling, congratulations. If you see it, I’ll buy you a drink as well! “Now it’s in Sterling pounds, it was a promotion draw and it’s to be paid into the Union Securities Limited. Please advise if this is a scam.”
MH: Well, I’ve never heard of any of those but I can tell you definitely that this will be a scam.
MN: Right.
MH: If you’ve won the National Lottery, and let’s face it we do all sit down and dream about it when we’re at our desks or in our offices or in our workplaces from time to time, you won’t have to pay a penny up. Somewhere down the line, if you respond to these emails or letters they will ask you to pay a fee before you can claim your winnings. That is going to be a scam but they use the lure of the lottery here. Things that sound like it might be the National Lottery called the Lotto Commission for Verification. There will be clues on these emails. You’ll look at … the telephone numbers will probably be mobile numbers. These addresses won’t be genuine addresses. Always be sceptical about this and it is the most prevalent. We did say when we started that how do people fall for this but their reaching us now with all modern communication means, it’s very easy to set up a very genuine looking website so you click and link on an email, a genuine website, it could even have the UK Lottery’s logos, which they can steal and put on there. If you do think it’s genuine you won’t have to pay anything but you can always contact the National Lottery Commission and, of course, you’ve got to buy a ticket. You’ve got to buy a ticket to win any lottery and here there’ll be all sorts of ruses why you didn’t buy a ticket, it’s a promotion, it’s a sweepstake …
MN: The ticket was bought on your behalf.
MH: Yes, it is very prevalent. Absolutely very prevalent and, of course, people are getting sucked into it, just don’t ever respond to these.
MN: We’ve had lots and lots on this particular subject, so thank you very much for those and Jennifer, I know you’re watching and thank you for yours, “Is this a scam?” I think the answer is probably going to be yes. “I received an email from UK Lottery saying I’d won a second category when my email address was randomly drawn from the world wide web.
MH: Mmm, well there he’s trying to answer some of the scepticism, ‘I didn’t buy a ticket, ah, it’s randomly bought.’ It’s ‘I don’t ever believe that I’ll win the top prize’ but here you are winning the second prize. So this is probably a bit more sophisticated scam than you’ve just won the money but it’s still a scam. Unsolicited emails, letters saying you’ve won a big cash prize. I don’t know any one that we’ve come across that has been genuine, never.
MN: Barbara Macleod, thank you Barbara, “How can I find out if the lottery is legit and how do I report it and who do I report it to?”
MH: Well, you can check with the National Lottery Commission or you can check with us. We’re very interested to hear about anyone who has a problem or wants to report a scam and you can email us at scams@oft.gsi.gov.uk so go on our website and our scams email address is there as well. But we are interested, you can report it to us, any scams but check with the local trading standards. If you’re unsure, always check, always be sceptical and check. If you’d genuinely won that money would be there tomorrow or the day after …
CK: Yeah.
MN: Yeah.
MH: … and they always use the sense of urgency, you must respond quickly, because they don’t want you to reflect and think about it. They want you to get carried away. What you see when you open these emails or letters is £288,000. You’ve sat down and you think, ‘My goodness!’
CK: But you need to send off your money now before it goes! It pressurises them.
MH: Yes, because next day … you might get sceptical the day after.
CK: Yeah.
MN: Have you had horror stories where people have come to you after the event and said, ‘look, this has just cost me hundreds and hundreds of pounds’?
MH: Well, unfortunately Murray, not hundreds but thousands and tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of pounds …
MN: Oh!
MH: … and sometimes you have to pinch yourself to believe how people get taken in. But once you start sending off some money, even to the mail ones, your information goes on what’s called a ‘sucker list’ and it goes round other crooks and conmen and then they will start calling you up with a couple of people, maybe the Chief Executive Officer, an Awards Officer, to persuade you but there will always be a ruse, taxes, fees, processing fees, a couple of hundred pounds but once they’ve got you on the phone you’ll find out how sophisticated they are, that they will persuade you. It’s a crime of persuasion in effect, calling you up, persuading you that you have to send off just a bit more, ‘It’s at the airport, the cheque’s at the airport now, it’s almost there.’
CK: And very polite, very charming …
MH: Yes.
CK: … you know and they just lure you in.
MH: And they’re going around trying to find people who might be more susceptible, …
MN: A soft touch.
… who maybe at home, on their own, who maybe don’t get much contact with the outside world and therefore they will befriend you. And once you even send off a small amount to one of these you might end up on the sucker list and they will take you … and we know, I’ve met people who’ve been taken for their life savings.
CK: Oh yeah.
MN: Well, there’s plenty of sad stories of things that have happened to so many people out there. If you have been scammed in any way then you may be able to help the media who are going to be launching a whole series of programmes and news items on scams and we’ll give you an address that you can send your stories of woe to and hopefully not your stories of woe if we catch you in time but we’ll give you that address in a little while. Pyramid selling is what we’re on, what is the basis of pyramid selling first of all and why is it so dangerous for people?
MH: Well, the basis of pyramid selling is that you have to recruit somebody else into the scheme to make money so there will be maybe some flash presentations about how you get holidays, discount vouchers, how you can make good earnings through a particular scheme and usually this will be someone you know so this is quite different to some of the other scams we’re talking about because, we might say …
CK: It’s built more on trust.
MH: It is built on trust and of course, if we’re saying be sceptical about something out of the blue, here you might have someone who might be involved in the scheme already, it could be friend or family. So how do you recognise it? Well, at some stage, they’ll say well to make money you’ve got to bring other friends, family, people you know to the presentation. Get them to invest into the scheme and the way you make your money is bringing other people and it’s called a pyramid scheme because it’s only the people at the top who make the money.
CK: And the very first few actually do get the money when they do this.
MH: Yes, if you’re a good salesperson and you con a lot of your friends’ money.
CK: They do actually, but after that, the further down, nobody gets anything.
MH: They end up with lot of money, Claire, but a lot of friends they’ve to get rip off on the way.
CK: That’s it. Absolutely. A lot of money, no friends, yeah.
MN: What a great way of checking your all friends off your list and making sure you don’t get any friends for the future.
(Laughter).
CK: We had somebody at one of my workplaces that was doing that.
MN: Really? We’ve got Matt as an example here, Matt Fox. He said, “I’ve recently received numerous mailings and emailings prompting me to join a chain-gifting scheme which, as usual, promises the comparatively large financial returns for a relatively small investment …” and that’s in a mailing list, you buy the mailing list. Is that the sort of way that it works, that you buy these mailing lists? “… What’s the current legal position …” is the question from Matt, “… since the passing of the gambling Act 2005, when the chain-gifting provisions within it have come into effect?” So can you make sense of any of that?
MH: Yes, well chain-gifting schemes, and this does show how imaginative scammers are, actually evade what’s in the law at the moment, it gets round the legal provisions which make these type of … that’s a kind of quasi-pyramid scheme actually legal and that’s why the Government’s made new legislation. But it’s not in effect yet so you have to be very careful about any scheme that’s offering you … like chain letters. Chain gifting is where you have to … you’re not actually paying to a member, you’re giving a donation and I think ‘Women Empowering Women’ was a very popular chain gifting scheme so they are closing that loophole but we can take action. It’s misleading for a start. They have to tell you that your earnings are going to be so much for you to get involved and if they explained what was actually going to happen most people would run a mile so they always have to lie. So we could take action against misrepresentation and also other legislation but it’s going to be a while before they’re outlawed. Next year pyramid schemes will be outlawed under a new piece of legislation called ‘Unfair Commercial Practices’ but we’re in a bit of limbo at the moment so people have got to be really wary about any of these schemes where you have to recruit somebody else into it.
MN: We’ve got Ahmad who wants to know, he’s said, … hi, hi there Ahmad, “A friend invited me to see a presentation a couple of weeks ago at a hotel. The company named is VIP Lifestyle and it said it’s not pyramid and it has two levels of business. My question is this business legal?”
MH: Ahmad, thank you very much for bringing everyone’s attention to this because VIP are well known to the Office of Fair Trading. We’ve just got a court injunction against Gurdip Singh, who was one of the organisers and we’re pursuing many others and that’s meant to be stopping them from doing these sort of presentations and misleading people. It’s a thinly disguised pyramid scam. If Ahmad could do the opposite and tell all his friends not to get involved in this. But that’s how they sell them, ‘This isn’t a pyramid scam, this is a genuine offer.’ They might even say to them, ‘We’re in discussion with the OFT.’ Well, we discussed it in a court, that’s when we discussed it!
MN: That’s discussion, that’s discussion.
(Laughter).
MH: So that’s one that’s current that people should look out for but they’re always
re-inventing themselves and I wouldn’t be surprised if VIP Lifestyle becomes some other club quite soon but it will have those same sort of things they’re doing, selling …
CK: It reminds me of the old timeshare scams that went on years ago …
MH: Well, it is still …
CK: Same sort of thing, you have a presentation, you can get a microwave or a cooker or TV if you go along to them and …
MN: I fell for that.
CK: Did you?
MN: Oxford Street, first time I went to London, that was it, dragged off and ugh …
CK: Yeah.
MN: I was in some room being pressure-sold a … goodness knows what and a holiday and a cruise where … they give you the tickets but you have to buy the flights from them which are about £4,000 each.
CK: Ahaha.
MN: Yeah, so I think we’ve all come close to …
MH: The key thing is about not being pressured isn’t it, not being pressured, take contracts away, think about it before you hand any money over, you can always check them up. If it’s a genuine company, they’ll say, ‘Well come back tomorrow.’
CK: That’s a point I’d like to make because I’ve had charity ones through where you can make a donation and win a prize. Now the whole point of all … we’re talking about scams today and things. I don’t want everyone to think that everything’s a scam but be sceptical, but check them out because, you know, the charity’s are going to lose out and that’s what we don’t want, for everyone to think that everything’s a scam basically.
MN: Okay, got about five or six minutes left to go and in that five or six minutes an awful lot to cover. Phishing, this is ‘PH’ with the ‘phishing’. This is phishing on the net which is obviously where it comes from. A lot of questions about that including some official looking emails requesting all sorts of money and a whole line of questions coming in from that. Thank you to Davey for yours amongst others who’ve been coming in with those. So “How do you tell a genuine email from a fake email?”
MH: Well, in terms of phishing, it’s about identity theft, they’re trying to get your details, your password details, your account numbers and they will pretend that these emails are coming from a legitimate company as a bank or people like E-Bay. It’s just an attempt to get your identity. You can tell because genuine banks, genuine companies won’t ask for passwords and account information through an email, they just won’t do it. So if you get these, just delete it.
MN: You …
CK: And they will give you numbers which they say are your account numbers, bank numbers, sort codes, …
MN: Sure.
CK: … you say, ‘No, no, no, mine’s not that, it’s that.’ So they’ve got a way of finding out the truth and extracting information you don’t want to basically give.
MN: Well, one final point on this before we move on very quickly. You do often get lookey-likey emails, they look like they’ve come from your bank. They’ve got the logo up there, not quite as good as you’d normally see it. You know, that’s an easy way to fall into it, isn’t it.
MH: It is. I mean that’s why it’s quite a sophisticated scam because the internet and emails can be designed in such a way where they will do a bogus website or bogus emails that will look just like the real thing so you’ve got to remember that your bank or genuine companies won’t ask for passwords and account information in this way.
MN: This is just one of those emails you just really don’t want to read. Virginia, hello Virginia, “My father’s eighty-four, he’s been deluged with mail from every scam-artist imaginable in the last three years. He’s sent a small fortune to these criminals who promise everything from fortunes to eternal life to goodness knows what. Is it not possible to bring some form of legislation that would fine the Royal Mail or any other carrier for delivery of this kind of mail? Can you not stop the mail at source?” It must be very difficult, you can’t sift it out really, can you?
MH: It’s very difficult for us or for the Royal Mail and I think it’s great that someone’s looking out for their relatives here because I think everyone could do more of this.
MN: Sure
MH: It is so common that we get letters every day at our office where this exact same thing happened because once they find someone who, perhaps they’re getting elderly and they have cognitive problems, are being scammed day in, day out. There’s not much you … you go on the mailing preference service, and that goes at MPS on-line, and you can register for your information to be taken off all the legitimate companies, so that you can start telling which is the junk mail and what is the scam mail because the legitimate won’t write to you anymore and the same with telephone preference service and people should know about these schemes where they can stop getting junk calls and junk mail. But in the end I think you’ve just got to see your elderly relatives often, perhaps you have to think about taking control of their finances. Redirect the mail even, redirect it to your own address, we’ve known people who’ve done that. So that you can go through it and say, ‘Right, this is the scam mail and this is the bills’ and the other things that your relatives need.
CK: There was a vicar close to me who had his mail redirected by a third party to a PO Box number in the East End. What do you do about that?
MN: this is getting even more complicated, isn’t it?
CK: They stole his identity completely.
MN: Sure. Identity theft, that’s a whole programme so we haven’t got time for that now but that is an area of, we were talking about this before we came on, shredding everything.
CK: Yeah, yeah, get a shredder.
MN: Don’t leave your address and certainly bank details, credit card bills, those sort of things have got to be …
CK: People are actually going through rubbish bins and getting your information, statements out, whatever.
MN: Alright, that’s the first stage in losing your identity. That tragic story we just heard from Virginia, just had another one from Clive, “My father is almost eighty-four and rapidly becoming senile, he started responding to scams three months ago sending cheques for ‘admin’, to be entered in prize draws. He’s been spending in excess of £75 a month on schemes originating from the UK and overseas. What can we do about it?” It’s the same thing all over again, isn’t it, check the mail …
MH: Yeah, register with these preference schemes, just give that helping hand. There’s good advice here on how to recognise if an elderly relative is being targeted, the fact that they might have kind of quasi-medical devices around, plenty of mail from overseas, getting unsolicited phone calls. If you go round and keep in touch with elderly relatives, keep an eye out for them then maybe you can intervene at that point.
MN: Right.
MH: Unfortunately, these people do hide from overseas and they won’t obey the normal rules of business so if you write back to them and say, ‘Don’t write to me again’ they will still think, if you’re a soft touch they will continue.
CK: And they still have a lot of trust, older people, don’t they and they will believe. No matter what their relatives say they will believe that this is legit.
MN: Sure, apart from anything else they don’t want to be proved wrong.
CK: Exactly! Yeah.
MN: If anything, you get more stubborn, more entrenched.
CK: Yeah.
MN: I know that the OFT’s website has got some fantastic tips on there and that’s probably a good place for people to start, isn’t it and you, no doubt, have got very, very easy sort of bullet points for people to avoid scams. What would they be, Mike?
MH: Well, the … it’s really to any offer you get is to stop, think, just be sceptical about anything you’re getting, however good it looks.
MN: Is it … I was going to say it’s that old thing, if it’s too good to be true it probably is.
CK: Yes.
MH: Well it certainly is but the one thing to look out for is them asking for money up front, at some stage send them a cheque, send it by Western Union, they want your money, they don’t want to give you any goods or services, anything genuine. Always be sceptical about sending money up front. Legitimate businesses don’t do that.
MN: Right, there’s plenty of tips there and do go on-line as the OFT have got a fantastic website. You can actually test whether you can spot a scam or not and that’s a pretty important thing. Scams month, this is when you’ve really got your head down on this this month and you’re really looking into these scams in a special way, is that right?
MH: Yes, it’s all really about awareness this month because we want to cut the life blood off to the scammers. We can investigate so many cases but we can’t stop them all and as we’ve been talking about, they’re very inventive and they can pop up in all sort of places and change their approach and tailor their approach to different niche markets so we really want people to be aware and not send money off and don’t be embarrassed if you have fallen for a scam. Report it and tell everybody else, ‘This is a scam that’s coming in’. What they’re relying on is that when you get that letter or that email or that text, you’re the only one who’s won the prize, who’s got the offer. If you find out that your friends and neighbours have, they can’t be giving money away, it doesn’t grow on trees so there’s a good way to kind of bring the taboo out of this. You know, if you’re being approached by a scammer or if you’ve been a victim don’t be embarrassed, talk about it.
MN: Alright, where do we go for more information?
MH: Well, to the OFT website and not just the website we’ve got a guide now, a scambuster’s guide to combating scams which you can order from our website as well so you can get something in your hands to read through. If you’re unsure about an offer and you want some clear, practical advice, there’s a new nationwide reporting line called ‘Consumer Direct’ and that’s on 0845 040506. So if you think something … you want to send money off but you’re just not quite sure, you want a bit of tips and advice, Consumer Direct is really good and if you just want to report a scam then the OFT, Scams@OFT.gsi.gov.uk.
MN: Glad you mentioned that website.
(Laughter).
CK: I can remember that.
MN: I was just about to mention there is a link right at the bottom of the page as you’re watching this anyway. You can click on that as well if there is a scam that you would like to report because I know that there is at the moment a documentary in the making that you could be part of and certainly your information could be valuable, so do link on there and do give them your story. If we didn’t get through your question today in the very short time, in the half hour that we did have, then rest assured that Mike says that afterwards he’ll look at all the questions and he will reply to all questions as well. So that’s going to keep you busy for a little while. It’s worth saying that we’ve had more response on this than we’ve had to anything that we’ve ever done on Webchats which just goes to prove just how many people are being targeted out there for scams. Do be wary, ‘buyer beware’and all of those phrases come to mind. Please, please, don’t get hooked up into a scam. Thank you very much indeed, Mike, for joining us and Claire, lovely to see you.
CK: My pleasure.
MN: Thank you very much indeed for coming in and giving your pearls of wisdom as well and join us again next time on Webchats.
