When your child reaches puberty, the rules start changing. They can start getting stroppy, wanting to stay out late and hanging around with the wrong crowd. But how do you manage to remain firm about their behaviour without them rebelling even more? Finding effective and mutually beneficial ways to discipline teenagers without breaking down communication, can be one of the most difficult parts of being a parent. Our Web TV show with renowned author and parenting expert Suzie Hayman can help.

Suzie will explain why having boundaries are so important and how you can work with your teen to set guidelines on what is acceptable in the household. What's more, she'll tell you how to create a happy medium for both you and your teenager as they take further steps towards adulthood.

As well as providing invaluable advice, Suzie will be taking your questions live online and telling you about www.gotateenager.org.uk, an online resource that will help you help your teens even more. Log on to the show for the full story.

Suzie Hayman joins us live online to discuss helping parents to discipline their teenagers.

For more information visit www.gotateenager.org.uk

H: Nicola Bonn, host
S: Suzie Hayman, parenting expert

H: Hello and welcome to the Parenting Show, I'm Nicola Bonn. Now, when your child reaches puberty, the rules start to change. The mood swings, the late nights, a general desire to get away from the family. Now finding effective and mutually beneficial ways to discipline teenagers without a breakdown in communications, or further rebellion can be one of the most difficult parts of being a parent. Well joining me today to offer an insight into how best to handle this challenging time is our parenting expert Suzie Hayman, hello Suzie

S: Hello Nicola

H: Now of course we are live today, if you do want your questions answered or if you have any comments please type them into the box on your screen. So Suzie, where do we start? I'll tell you where I want to start right, you're round the table

S: Yes

H: You want to have a family meal, you've cooked a roast, everything's going well. Little teenager sitting there decides uh-uh, I don't want this, I'm going to watch TV, gulp my food down and off I go with my friends. This is a situation parent's face and often that leads to other problems

S: It can although funnily enough if you've got a habit of sitting round the table it's less likely to happen, I must say. I think family meals are a really important thing, especially if you're listening to them as well as talking at them. The point about it is and you've said it – the rules change. This is the whole point. You start off by having a little baby that you look after, a child; you guide children, you tell them what to do, you're the person in charge, you're the big one, you can – if anything – you know if you need to, intimidate them, dominate them. You have sanctions against a small child. When they get to be a teenager and they're eye to eye with you, you don't. You have to do it in a different way, and the number one thing I think to understand is that teenagers are apprentice adults.

H: Oh I like that

S: They're no longer children, they're apprentice adults. And the whole point about being a teenager is you're in training to look after yourself. So that you want to make your own rules perhaps, make your own decisions. That's when they start saying you know you're not the boss of me and you can't tell me what to do. What they're actually trying to say is I would like to tell myself what to do, and that's why the rules change to be from telling to negotiating, discussing. So not disciplining them, but helping them have self discipline to see that sometimes actually you know you need to work with the family, you can't just go off and be on your own. You want to work with the family and that's the, that's where all the skill is, getting it so that it's mutual benefit

H: So if your teenager is refusing to eat dinner with the family, negotiate?

S: Yes and perhaps for a bit say fine, go to your room, take your meal – if that's what you'd like, you know take your meal to your room. And see how long they really like that, because actually you're having fun downstairs, you're chatting, you're enjoying yourself – they'll probably then find after having made their stand, after having made their choice and said you can't tell me what to do, I want to be the one that makes a choice. They may then decide "I want to come and sit here, that's my choice" – because it's their choice. That is probably what's going to happen

H: Ok so we've dealt with the food, they're gulping down their food, they want to see their friends, and that leads us to their friends. Now they could be hanging around with the wrong people, they could be hanging around in the wrong places. What do you do? How do you find out what they're doing?

S: Well for a start maybe you shouldn't be, because this is one of the things is that they need to go off and to regulate their own life. That's part of being an apprentice, it's see how the rules work, it's making your own friends and it's managing those social networks. And I think that's one of the problems that's so – it's so hard for parents, that for so many years you have been in charge. You have been able to, in some way, if not tell your children who to be friends with, to you know sort of nudge it by being you know those are the ones you take them to the house to be friends with, or welcome into the house. When they get to be teenagers, you stop being the most important person in their life. Their friends become the most important people in their life. And they do want to make their own choices about those people, and of course some of the battle is actually you're a bit hurt about that, you know that's what's really going on, and you feel a bit rejected, and maybe what is, you know a power struggle going on of you still wanting to be the most important person and feeling pushed out. And that's really what you're fighting about. It's, you know, do you really love me best? The answer is well actually at the moment no, and that's part of what being a teenager is all about

H: So even if you're aware that your teenager is hanging out in a really awful place doing awful things, you don't get involved?

S: Well not exact – it's not exactly like that, of course you want to get involved but remember that when we do this, and so often, so often Parentline Plus hears on its helpline all the time, and I hear as an agony aunt all the time, from parents who are saying "my teenager's hanging out with a bad crowd" – I tell you what. I bet you 99.9% of the parents of those other teenagers is saying exactly the same things. Because we always blame the other kids rather than actually saying it's a collective thing. Teenagers get together and they do stuff together, not because one of them necessarily leads it, not because the others are bad and your nice teenager's being lead astray, but because that's what being a teenager's all about. So if you were a little bit more respectful, welcoming about your teenager's friends, and you know said to them you value them, tell me about them, tell me what you value in these people? Actually they you know they might disabuse you of the anxieties you've got, because sometimes when we think they're out doing no good, all they're doing is hanging around chatting. Part of the problem may be that you're community doesn't give them nice places to go to

H: Yes

S: So when you're sort of hanging out in horrible places, what on street corners and you know in an abandoned building – well if there was a skate park, if there was a youth club, if there was somewhere nice for them to go to and they weren't, you know, getting moved on all the time by the adults, maybe they'd be in nicer places

H: Yes. That's a very good point

S: So really if you don't like it, go out there as a community and make better places for them

H: Yes – I like that idea. Well we've got so many questions coming in already

S: Good

H: I'm going to start with this – "my wife and I" – this is from Peter – "my wife and I have very different views on discipline." Now Peter wants to be friends with the kids but his wife thinks that they're just going to abuse them if they do that. How do you get the balance?

S: Ok one of the things I think to keep in mind is that as a parent you're not a friend. You're not a friend of your children and you shouldn't seek to be. They've got friends, and actually they won't want to be friends with you, they want you to be a parent. Now they can be friendly, that's a different thing, in other words you ought to be able to have a mutual chatty, loving, communicative relationship that is – you know the way you might talk to your friends. But in the last, you know the last stop, when the buck stops, parents ought to be able to be the ones to say I'm the adult, and you know this is the line and we don't go any further and I'm the one who's actually saying what goes on. But you should also be listening, so it's about getting that balance between being friendly, being respectful, listening to them, talking with them but still holding yourself back as being the parent and the adult, not the friend. So what I would say actually is try and do a bit of melding together. Peter you and your wife should talk about what your, you know what your barriers are, you know where the lines are that you think are important. And perhaps also talk about your own childhoods because what you need to see is you know, where are you getting your models from? When you look back in your life, who are you saying well they did it right or they did it wrong? Is it in fact that you had a very authoritarian father and you don't want to be like that?

H: Reacting against it

S: Exactly

H: Yes

S: Fine, don't be authoritarian, you know don't be brutal, don't be somebody who's never there for your kids ,but recognise that that doesn't mean to say you want to be friends with them. You want to be their loving, caring, respectful father whose there for them and is still the adult

H: God it sounds so difficult. It sounds so hard just getting that medium

S: It is. It is difficult because it's like –

H: No one teaches you, apart from you Suzie and Parentline Plus

S: No one teaches you because, especially if you've had a bad model. So the thing perhaps to do is to think what would I really have liked? Not in the fantasy, because you know if you think about it the fantasy of the friend, the parent who's a friend, actually it's a bit creepy

H: Yes

S: You know they call me Steve type-of-thing. Think about what you really would have liked and that's the parent that you should be trying to be

H: Ok. We've got – this is from Amit and this is really interesting actually – "as a Muslim parent I find it hard seeing my children behaving like Western children. They follow the faith but they want to run a mop like the other kids. They hang out at night, they wear make-up, they listen to pop music. I know I have to let them find themselves but I don't want them going off the rails. Can you help?"

S: Absolutely. For a start what I would say is trust yourself and trust your beliefs, because it's very curious that the teenage years, particularly in the west, are a time of rebellion. Actually they're all over the world a time of rebellion when kids are pushing against those boundaries and trying to find out who they are and what is the limit. But they almost always come back in the end to the rules, the ideas, the faiths, the principals, the morals of their parents. When they grow up they become the same. Think back to when you were a teenager and you'll find that you did exactly the same sort of stuff, but you still ended up, you know pretty similar to your mum and pretty similar to your mum or your dad, on the same lines. And the thing is it's trust. If you've given them a good model, they'll come back to it, but at this point they need to be really doing a little bit of exploration. And I know it is very, very hard if you're in a different culture to see that people are trying to mix cultures, and I think what does happen actually in each successive generation is that things get a little bit more mixed. If you live here, your kids in a sense have to take on some of the stuff of the society that they're in, otherwise they stand out and they're different, and you know when they go into school with other kids, who are from a different culture, the culture perhaps that is you know, has a longer stake in this country, that's necessarily what's going to happen because they want to belong as well. So it's about being a little bit flexible, but having certain things where you put your foot down about. There are certain things that we in this family, you know don't do, or certain things that we do do, such as recognising your faith and practicing it. But it's about also, as I said, being a bit flexible and listening to them. The more you talk with them, in other words the more you listen to them as well as talking at them, the more you're going to arrive at something that you actually like. The more you put heavy rules down with teenagers and the more you try and say you must do it this way, the more they'll push against that. So it's about giving a little bit, and then you'll find actually they don't push so hard

H: You make it sound so simple, I think –

S: It's not

H: But actually though it probably is a lot more simple than we realise

S: Yes

H: it's just so hard to put it into action sometimes

S: Exactly

H: Right, I've got another question for you now. "I have a teenager who desperately wants money for clothes. Now he could get a job but it is quite far away and I wouldn't allow it. However I'm not going to give him more pocket money. What should I do?"

S: I mean this is a bit of – you know, I want this but I don't want that, and I tell you the number of times that I get letters, and again Parentline Plus gets phone calls from people who are virtually saying give me a solution but – these are the rules. I won't do this, they won't do that – very difficult if you're not being flexible about things, and I think you need to think sometimes about the flexibility. And about why, in this particular case you're saying I won't let my teenager go and get a job

H: Do you think it's fear maybe?

S: Too far away – I think it's fear, exactly Nicola. I think that's it .when your teenager gets a job, they are saying in effect I don't need you anymore. They're making that big step into being an adult and no longer needing you anymore. They are obviously also making that big step into saying well it's my money, I can spend it on what I like. I can buy the clothes I like, not necessarily the clothes that you like. That is very scary for a parent. That is losing. That is letting go. That is pushing you into the category of being old and unwanted, because they are now, you know moving into being adults. And so that's a scary thing to happen, and often we, you know, we try and stop that happening. Not for the reasons that we're talking about, i.e. it's too far away and whatever that means, what that you have to take them there, that they're going to have a trip, you know think about what you mean by that's a bad thing that it's so far away. But it may not be actually about that, it's more about losing control and the person growing up that you don't want. My advice would always be that the sooner young people go off and earn their own money the better. Because they learn then about money, they learn about value, they learn about work. I mean that sounds like a wonderfully responsible adult thing that this young person is trying to say. You know I want clothes and I'm prepared to earn for it. Bravo your teenager. I think it's about time that you had a real think about what's wrong with this, and if there are concerns that you have, sit down with them and brainstorm. What do they want, what do you want, how are you going to put the two together so that both of you are going to be ok about it?

H: Actually from the experience of my younger sister, when she got a job, she actually became closer to my parents because she was independent and she felt maybe more confident about herself

S: That's right and you know you are letting go a bit, and in fact this is – the more you cling, the more they're going to struggle to get away. The more you let go, the more they're going to actually come back to you and cuddle up against you. Because if you're respecting them in that way and you're not pulling them back, they don't have to pull so hard. And I think also that when young people earn money, working and having that spare cash to spend on what they like, makes them actually appreciate what parents have to go through. It's suddenly oh my God you have to do all this in order to buy me a t-shirt. You know, and you've been doing it for years without much complaint. Respect man, respect

H: Right we've got another one here, this is from Selina – "my teenage son is 14 and driving me mad. I've wondered about threatening to withdraw his monthly allowance, but I worried he might then seek criminal ways of getting the money. How can I control him, he just treats the house like a hotel?"

S: Mmm. Control. And that's the word that leaps out for me, that worries me slightly, because I think again this is one of the things that we keep going to when we're dealing with teenagers is this feeling of we're out of control and that's a bad thing. And to make everything ok we must get back into control. And I would say that when it comes to teenagers, actually think again. Get your mind in a different place, it's not about control. It's actually about helping them instil self-control. Now why would you assume that a child is going to go off and thieve, do criminal things –

H: Yes I was going to say that

S: Just because. You know what's going on here that that's what your anxiety is? Are you reading all the papers about criminal teens and thinking well they all act like that if you take the blocks of as it were. No they're not. The vast majority of teenagers love their parents, do fantastic things, wouldn't dream of doing criminal stuff. The ones who do it are often in families where something's gone wrong. They're unhappy kids, they might be bullied kids, they may be kids who, you know, families have broken up. There's something going on there that children behave in that way. If you're worrying about your child behaving in that way, maybe what you should be looking at is what's happening in the family, or that child's life to make them vulnerable to that sort of behaviour and that's what you pay attention to, rather than this business of control. I would say the thing to do here is to, is again it's about discussion. If you haven't got money, your child wants money and you haven't got it, talk to them about it. Explain why it's difficult, set up that communication. The more you listen to teenagers the more they'll tell you and the more you're going to be able to get somewhere rather than do this, you know, you've got to do exactly what I say, because that I'm afraid, with teenagers, just never works

H: Do you think the press has quite a lot to answer for, painting teenagers as these violent, scary things, when actually I think that scares parents so much, and it's a vicious circle isn't it?

S: I hear so often, Parentline Plus hears so often from parents who are saying you know, my child's 12 years old, 11 years old and I'm dreading the teenage years, they're about to turn into a teenager. Isn't it dreadful? And of course that wonderful comic, you know, on the stroke of 13, suddenly uggh, child turns into a monster, has a lot to answer for, because we do seem to think that you know this happens and suddenly they become monsters. No they don't, they don't. They become young people who are striving to learn who they are. They become young people who no longer want to take what they're told on trust; they want to think it through themselves. They want to find out their own personalities, they want to find out their own boundaries. That actually happens through the teenage years and is perfectly normal

H: Yes

S: so a lot of the rebellion is not anything wrong, it's not them being weird, abnormal or even you know sort of unpleasant, it's actually they're going through totally normal development changes. But I think the way that we see it, makes a lot of trouble because we think – we cast that behaviour in a particular mould, we think it shows them being unpleasant, dangerous, you know, liable to become criminals because that's what the press has told us all teenagers are like. All teenagers are not like that, they really aren't

H: I wasn't

S: The vast majority – you were –

H: I was lovely

S: I was probably quite a pain in the –

H: I can see that!

S: Because I was very rebellious

H: Yes

S: But it wasn't about being unpleasant, it wasn't about, you know, attacking anybody. It wasn't about being as any way unusual or abnormal, it was about that business of you know I want to do things my way, I want to learn my own ways, I want to become self-reliant and self-disciplined and you know you have to – in other words freedom is something you have to take not be given, and that's what's going on in those teenager's lives. If you enjoy it, if you actually change your mindset from this is a struggle that I have to win, to this is an exploration that I want to be part of

H: Yes

S: Actually it becomes very, very different

H: An adventure. Now we have had a lot of questions in about aggression and violence

S: Yes

H: And this one's quite interesting, it's from Julie Hughes. Right here we go – "my 13 year old daughter is extremely violent towards me and my husband. In every other aspect of her life, school etc, she does really well, but if me or my husband try to tell her to stop doing something she sometimes responds in a violent manner. We've been to see our GP and he's recommended that we take them to our local social services, that they become involved, but it does seem a shame considering she's doing really well in other areas."

S: It's interesting we often get this that the child will kick off in one area rather than another, so you might have a child that's perfect at home and is kicking up at school. Perfect at school and kicking up at home

H: Yes

S: And you need to look sometimes at you know why are they doing it in this particular area. And it might be that they trust you. The child trusts you to contain their bad behaviour because you love them and you know it's part of the family. 13 years old is an age in which you are, you know again it's what I've been talking about, this who am I, where am I going ,what's happening? It's very volatile; your feelings are very close to the surface. You're seething with hormones and anger and pain and confusion and I want to do this, and I want to do that, and I want to be ready to do this but I'm not quite ready to do that. All those sorts of things can often boil over, and particularly if somebody's trying to lay down the law with you. I would like to say, you know firstly check in yourself you know whether you think there is any problem. Has anything been going on? When did it start? Is it about growing up and hormones or is it about something that's happened in the family that she perhaps hasn't been able to talk about? Has a grandparent died, has a pet died? Has a friend gone? Has something happened to make her feel you know nothing's going right in my life? Or is it just, as I said, these changes, in which case talk to her, listen to her. And instead of sort of saying you've got to do it this way, next time you want something different, say can we talk about something. Now this is what I would like because – how do you think about this, how do you feel about this? In other words enlist them as part of the solution rather than being the problem. And I think very often we see teenagers as problems that we have to solve rather than saying there's the problem we both want to solve; now the two of us can find that solution. So she's not the problem she's part of the solution

H: Yes

S: To get to the problem, and enlist her in helping you to get there

H: Again you're on this adventure together

S: Adventure together and side-by-side rather than head-to-head, and I think it's that head-to-head sometimes that makes the difficulty. You see it as being a struggle, that you've got to win. Uh-uh, see it as side-by-side, got to solve together

H: Ok so we've only got time for one more question, so many have come in.

S: I'm sure

H: This is from Sara Gilbert – "I haven't had children yet but I'm planning on having them. Do you think there are things that you can do pre-puberty to try and make them better behaved as teenagers?"

S: Absolutely! I have no doubt about it. Come onto the Parentline Plus website. Read all the information there, chat with us on the boards, do a parenting course perhaps – you know you can be perfectly, perfectly, you know good – a good enough parent but there are still skills that you may like to take on board to help you with your parenting. Start from the beginning, feeling relaxed, feeling skilled, feeling empowered, feeling happy about being, you know this is something that you're planning, and all the way through, you will have a child that will be talking to you, communicating with you and have less conflict. But I will still say that however good enough, you can never be a perfect parent. You can be a good enough parent, however good enough you are, you'll still find when they get to the teenage years that they are going to want to separate from you and that separation means a bit of rebellion and that's actually quite normal, it's nothing to be worried about. Let them do it, be there for them, and as I said they'll always come back to you

H: Susie thank you so much. I think the advice has been brilliant

S: Thank you

H: I think the one thing I've taken from this is that when I have a teenager, it's not going to be a fight between us, we're going to work together as a team and climb those mountains together. Now look if you're worried about your teenager, if you've got any problems, there's a really good place to go for more advice, and it's gotateenager.org.uk. Bye bye for now and we'll see you soon

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