TV wine expert Olly Smith on what to drink with your Christmas dishes

There are only a few weeks until Christmas and most of us are now counting down to that big festive shop. And there are so many decisions to make as you wheel the trolley down the aisles. Do you stick with traditional turkey or try something different like goose or ham? Will it be bubble and squeak on Boxing Day? And don’t forget the obligatory bag of satsumas!

But once you’ve got the food sorted, you’ve still got top up the trolley with your festive tipples. And that can be even more daunting given the range of foods we tend to serve over the festive period. Do you go for sherry or a Christmas punch for a pre-lunch drinks party? What wine goes best with turkey – or with the leftovers the next day?

And as Christmas Pudding is often served with Brandy Butter, what do you serve with it? A fruity red, a sweet dessert wine or a rich, ruby port?

Help is now at hand. To solve some of those Christmas food and drink dilemmas we have just the expert advice you need to make that supermarket sweep as painless as possible.

Olly Smith - Richard & Judy’s wine expert – and Simon Turrell, expert from Matthew Walker – the UK’s leading Christmas Pudding maker – join us live on Tuesday November 20th at 13:00 for a special festive tasting session

H: Jane Constantinis, host
O: Olly Smith, wine expert
S: Simon Turrell, Matthew Walker

Hello and welcome to the Food and Drink Show, I’m Jane Constantinis. Now, it’s that time of year, you’ve got to go up into the loft, dust off the Christmas decorations, make the Christmas card list, decide whose going to get the lavish gifts this year, but you’ve also – probably – got to start thinking about the Christmas meal. Now whether it’s going to be 20 close relatives for the whole day or just the two of you, it is actually quite a challenge isn’t it, to prepare the whole traditional Christmas feast, and the wine and other alcoholic drinks to go with it, at exactly the right moment, and I think a lot of people get very stressed about it, there are huge expectations, there’s a lot of build-up and it’s all about planning and timing. Well, fret no more because we’re going to answer some of your Christmas food and drink dilemmas now because we’ve got two experts in the studio with us. We’ve got Olly Smith who knows everything there is to know about wine, and you might have seen him on Channel 4’s Richard and Judy show, welcome,

O: Hello

H: Thank you for coming in to talk to us. We’ve also got Simon Turrell who knows everything there is to know about Christmas puddings, he works for Matthew Walker and they’ve been making them since 1899 – I don’t think you’ve been with the company for that long

S: Not quite, but nearly, nearly

H: You’re wearing very well if you have”! Thank you very much, both of you, for coming in

S: Pleasure

H: Let me ask you straight away, what’s your favourite bit of the Christmas meal?

O: Oh I love the lot but I think kick-off has got to be the bit when it all lifts, and for me it’s got to be with a glass of good fizz, amazing fizz in fact, that really sets the day going for me

H: Lovely. And can I guess what yours might be?

S: Obviously, got to be the Christmas pudding

H: Yes, it is mine too actually, I always save a big space for eating Christmas pudding

S: You have to, it is fantastic

H: It is fantastic –

S: It’s the end of the meal

H: Yes, a highlight

S: It’s the highlight and the end of the meal. It’s great

H: And don’t forget this is a live show so if you’ve got questions for Olly and Simon just type them into the box on the screen and send them with your name, we’ll get through as many as we possibly can during the show. So let’s tackle the whole Christmas feast in chronological order – let’s talk about starters, and it’s a funny thing starters, isn’t it, because some families have big starters and some have none at all

O: Yes

H: What do you do?

O: We don’t actually have starters, I just invite friends round from the village where I live and we just have lots of nibbles, lots of tasty little treats and that’s what we do, and then everybody goes and just the family enjoy the Christmas dinner

H: Well we do the same thing but it’s things like smoked salmon

O: Yes

H: Maybe prawn cocktail, that sort of thing

O: Some people have oysters, you know to get things going, something a bit grand that they wouldn’t otherwise have, but I think you know whatever you’re having, as long as it’s amazing quality that’s the thing to look for

H: Ok and what should we be drinking with it?

O: Well for me fizz I think

H: Yes

O: Has got to kick off the day because it’s Christmas but I’m a huge fan of English fizz, and I’ve got here Nyetimber, Blanc de Blancs which I absolutely love from the year 2000. Terrific stuff – would you like to try a little –

H: Yes or –

O: Tiny tipple?

H: Maybe Simon you should

O: I think for the gentleman here –

H: Yes

O: I love this stuff, it comes from about two miles away actually from where I live and we cracked a bottle when my daughter Lily was born – on the kitchen floor, had to deliver her myself – but –

H: Was that the wine or the baby?

O: That was the baby, and then the wine came out afterwards

H: Fantastic

O: I caught her. But see what you reckon, but fizz actually, lovely. Chardonnay grapes delicious

H: And is English fizz as good as the traditional French fizz?

O: Yes I think so, I mean it’s a different thing, it’s hard to quantify because it is a different kettle of fish but I do think the quality is world class. Of that there’s no doubt

H: And getting better

O: Absolutely, year on year and the number of Frenchmen stalking around Sussex and Hampshire at the moment looking to buy land – amazing

H: You can tell because they’re on bicycles with onions

O: They have the onions and the beret, of course

H: Absolutely. And in fact we’ve got a question in straight away

O: Yes

H: Thomas Charles Whitman says, “Olly”

O: Hello

H: Bit familiar. “I’ve heard there’s a shortage of champagne –

O: Yes

H: This year. Shall I go and stack up loads of stuff?”

O: You could do, there is a shortage he’s absolutely right, there’s a rise in middle class India and China buying absolutely loads of the stuff. Champagne cannot produce enough of the stuff so they’re thinking of expanding the region, but what I would say is various supermarkets have got offers on at the moment, Majestic are doing about 50% off fizz at the moment, so get down there, Waitrose 25% off everything so seize the chance to grab a bargain and do it while you can, because yes I think in the future champagne will be in short supply

H: Wow, so the answer is yes

O: Or buy English, it’s brilliant

H: Yes ok, great. Lovely. Was that nice?

S: It’s absolutely fantastic, just looking forward to Christmas already

H: Good start –

O: Come on! Bring it on

H: To the day. Ok, so that’s the starter, we’ve got the party atmosphere going now with the fizz, and then we move onto the – well we don’t think it’s the main event because we’re waiting for the pudding, but the main course. Now I love turkey, what about you?

O: Big fan

S: It’s got to be turkey

H: But increasingly people are not eating turkey, what’s wrong with them?

O: They’re losers! I think you can have what you like but for me turkey’s got to be the centre of the table, it’s such a brilliant bird, we don’t really have it at any other times of the year, obviously the Americans have it on their national day but I just think for me, Christmas

H: Yes. But of course it’s not just about the turkey, it’s about all the trimmings isn’t it?

O: Yes

H: It’s about the sprouts and the parsnips and the little sausages and so on. What is it about, let’s say you are having turkey, what is it about this combination of food that dictates what we should be drinking?

O: It’s a great question, what it really boils down to is the stuffing. If you’re having a nice, light, fruity stuffing you could go for a white wine like a Chardonnay from Burgundy, or if you want a real bargain you could get a Chardonnay from New Zealand like this Mahi Chardonnay which is absolutely fantastic value, it’s around about £12 rather than paying about £24 for a top burgundy. Or if you’re going more savoury with your stuffing and you’re going a bit cranberry-tastic then I would recommend Pinot Noir and again that’s a red grape variety but that comes again from Burgundy

H: Ok

O: I’ve got one here, Domaine de Perdris, and I’d love, I’d love –

H: I’ll tell you what, if you’re talking about stuffing with cranberry let me taste a little bit –

O: Absolutely. I’ll tell you another kinky thing that people do with their big, fruity heavy stuffings is, especially Aussies, they love having sparkling Shiraz with it

H: Oh

O: And some people swear by it, so that’s another option. It’s a very festive possibility. It’s one of those Marmite moments where people either love it or hate it, so if you are doing sparkling Shiraz bear that in mind. Pinot noir, cranberries – zippy acidity

H: Lovely. Cranberries -?

O: Cranberries have lots of zing basically and Pinot noir, high acidity, lots of lovely fruit flavour – it’s quite crisp for a red wine, it’s not too heavy either. The tannins are quite low so it’s not that chunky in the mouth which is key if you’re having a bird like a turkey

H: Yes. That’s lovely. Are you a red or a white man yourself?

S: I like both obviously

O: High five, high fives!

H: Quantity rather than – no, no no!

S: Yes

H: No of course not, no

O: Not quantity

H: But of course you mentioned about not being too heavy, the challenge I think for the whole Christmas day is not to over eat, to eat delicious things but not too much of it

O: It’s a daily challenge, a daily challenge! However you’re right, yes – don’t overeat!

H: Fantastic well that was a very good choice. Let’s lose the main course now

O: Hoorah

H: And move on to what well Simon you and I certainly think is the main event –

O: Simon is the main event of the day, he’s devoted his life’s work to this cause

H: Of the day. I hope you don’t hold back on the turkey though when you’re waiting for the pudding. Wow!

O: Look at that

H: That is fantastic, it’s beautiful

O: It is Christmas, it’s officially Christmas

H: It is now Christmas

S: Happy Christmas. Magic

H: I can see so many delicious things in that. So, talk us through what exactly is in a top notch Christmas pudding like this one

S: This type of Christmas pudding, obviously what we’re really interested in is quality ingredients, that’s the main thing I want to do. We want to create a flavour which is complex flavours, but it’s all about finding the best raisins, the best sultanas, the best cherries – look, fantastic French cherries, look absolutely beautiful, Greek currants, Turkish sundried sultanas, Californian almonds, so it’s about getting all those lovely fruits together, spices from all over the world, marrying them all together in this fantastic recipe, and of course Christmas puddings are not really Christmas puddings unless they contain just a little bit of alcohol

H: Yes

S: What we really want to do is try and promote the alcohol flavours to come through. On this particular Christmas pudding what I’ve wanted to use fantastic French, double distilled Cognac

O: Yummy

S: And then what’s better to go with that than Port

O: Yes

S: Not to over complicate it, just to get really nice balance of flavours. Then a lot of Christmas puddings we put cider in

O: Yes

H: Oh

S: But thinking back, from the Victorian times, they really wanted to say what else can we put in apart from cider, and – my mother used to make Christmas puddings and I remember in the kitchen when she was actually pouring in the Guiness into the Christmas puddings, so made me start thinking about stout, so I’ve found this fantastic St Petersburg Stout, comes from a brewery in the Peak district, it’s a very small little brewery but it’s got lovely chocolately sort of notes to it, so it really does bring out all the flavours

O: It’s richness, yes

H: So did you design this?

S: Yes

H: Are you the man who actually creates these puddings?

S: I have got the best job in the whole world

O: King of Christmas

H: I think you have, yes

S: I am the king of Christmas puddings I spend all year round just making Christmas puddings and tasting them and inventing, trying to find new, interesting ways of making Christmas puddings

H: Well – but it’s a variation on a very traditional recipe isn’t it, you’re not messing around with it?

S: Well that’s one of the interesting things because when I first started kind of looking at Christmas puddings for this year I thought – what else can we do, we must be able to do something more exciting or you know offering different things, but we talked to so many people who love Christmas puddings and some people who don’t even like Christmas puddings, and asked them “what do you want from your Christmas pudding?” And everybody came back with we want a traditional Christmas pudding, we want it to be dark, we want it to be juicy and moist, and we want to be able to taste all the different bits of fruit. So that was really what we did –

O: Certainly when I first tasted it I remember that the moisture was the thing that really got me, those little fruity ones that pop in your mouth, absolutely brilliant

H: Yes

O: I can’t bear a dried out pud and this is so juicy and rich

S: Well that’s exactly what we do, we have 300 people at Matthew Walker and everybody’s just so passionate about making Christmas pudding all year round, it’s all about the cooking process, they actually steam that pudding so we don’t make a horrible dense pudding, it’s a lovely, light pudding – well, try

H: What – just before we tuck in – what makes the difference though between an exceptional pudding like this, and an average one?

S: I think really it is getting the balance of ingredients right, it’s sourcing the right ingredients. I mean for one particular pudding we had to find some very good raisins, and we actually – somebody went out to the foothills of the Andes in Argentina just to find those right raisins

H: Wow

S: So it’s sourcing the right ingredients, it’s then preparing them in the right way in a good way, a traditional way, and steaming them, cooking them in the right way and it’s just balancing everything together to make a very, very traditional pudding

H: What’s the origin of the Christmas pudding?

S: You could trace that back to 1500s

O: Brilliant

S: When there was a porridge or frumenty which contained beef, mutton, some fruits, some ales and then it kind of progressed over time and people were eating that round the festive period. And then came Oliver Cromwell and his merry men – or not merry actually

O: Yes when was he merry?

S: Not merry at all, he was sombre. And they actually banned us from eating Christmas pudding, and so they were puritans, it was a lewd custom, so they actually stopped it

O: I love it

H: I love a lewd custom

O: I feel quite lewd

S: When he came along, Prince Albert, Victoria’s husband, and he actually fell back in love with Christmas puddings and he started promoted everybody eating Christmas puddings

O: It’s all down to Bert

S: And they are the puddings that basically we eat today, they haven’t changed much

H: Fantastic, and you’ve mentioned the alcohol inside it but of course the tradition of lighting the pudding, do you know anything about that?

O: Yes I mean for me, to be honest, with the providence of this pudding is without question, I mean the flavours are phenomenal, I love the idea of Simon going round the world with his net catching you know, lemons and raisins from all over the place. I wouldn’t put anything on this because I think why would you, the balance is perfect, I think he’s done a cracking job, I wouldn’t presume to add something to it

H: No

O: Of course you can, if you wish, put your brandy on and light it. I think if you’re going to do that to be perfectly honest, I wouldn’t bother about quality too much because you’re just lighting it. However for me, of course, because I’m all about flavour, I would worry about the quality and I’d splash out really, but this pudding is all about the fruit

H: Yes, but do you know the best method of lighting, because I know that Simon –

O: Heat – some people heat the spoon, some people will heat the pudding, some people do all sorts of things – what’s your method?

S: My method –

O: Blowtorch?

S: Yes a blowtorch! One little cupful of brandy or rum, just pour it on – the important thing is let that soak in, let the heat of the pudding turn the alcohol to vapour and then light it, because it’s actually the vapour which is going to –

O: Exactly

S: Cause the ignition

H: Now what’s the story behind the holly on top?

S: Well the holly’s just very very traditional again, some people say it represents a crown of thorns from Jesus Christ

H: Oh ok, yes

S: But also holly, again 15th century people would actually have a holly bush outside their house because it’s supposed to keep all the illnesses away so actually

O: Course it does

S: It’s a very traditional thing

H: Yes

O: Going to wear a wreath in it

H: Now, you talked earlier about the steaming of the pudding, but how do we on the big day when we’ve had some of your fizz, then we’ve had some of that and some of that, and we’ve got to get the pudding on the table – how do we cook it?

S Well to be honest with you there’s two methods of eating Christmas pudding. I think 90% of people will actually choose to microwave a Christmas pudding because they’ve got so many pots going on everywhere else in the kitchen, and Christmas puddings do microwave exceptionally well

O: Yes

H: Really?

S: They really do microwave exceptionally well

O: I did it, he made me –

H: Honestly?

O: It does work

S: Follow the instructions on the packet, that’s very very critical, they are quite detailed, just follow those and you will have a fantastic Christmas pudding straight out of the microwave

H: Because it keeps it very moist

S: It does, it keeps it moist

H: And in fact, talking of serving it, Mary wants to know “what do you think is the best way to serve it? Any exotic new ways?”

S: To actually serve it? That’s a very good question

O: It’s a wonderful one. What in sort of long glasses and things in like scoops of ice cream up the top, there you go, there’s one

S: Off the top of your head

H: Fantastic off the top of your head

O: Like bubbles

H: Is it the day to be doing exotic new things? I’m not sure it is

S: I honestly believe it’s such a traditional day, it’s all about tradition of Christmas, it’s a magical Christmas day and I just believe it’s a very traditional day and obviously there’s lots of family stories going on about Christmas day itself. It’s brilliant

H: Yes and of course you mustn’t forget to put the – well not sixpences now – children nowadays want a pound coin don’t they?

O: A quid?

H: Yes

O: Never

H: Yes, the folding stuff. Can’t get that in

O: Shocking

H: Where does that come from?

S: That is part of history and people have been putting various little charms into Christmas puddings, sixpences we all know about, that’s supposed to bring you wealth. But if you were to find a gold ring in a Christmas pudding, that should mean you’re going to get married next year. Or, unfortunately, a wooden button, well that should mean you’re going to be a bachelor

O: What if you find both?

S: Well you would be very confused!

O: Yes

H: I’m going to – I know that – I can see that you really fought to get it –

O: It’s the aroma

H: In a minute we’re going to do it, but I just – Olly one more question for you

O: Yes

H: Sean wants to know

O: Yes

H: This is a general wine question – “can you suggest a good Christmas wine for a wine enthusiast?”

O: Are we – is he after a red or a white, do we know?

H: Doesn’t say

O: Doesn’t say – fine. I think if you’re after a red I would go for this bad boy here, this Nuit St Georges, Domaine de Perdris, which you can buy in Tescos

H: Nice accent

O: Thank you very much. I think it’s about £23. A white whine, I absolutely love this Mahi Chardonnay I mentioned earlier on, and you can get that at Novum wines which is novumwines.com, warmly recommend it, 2004, lovely stuff. If you’re a Burgundy fan you’ll love that wine

H: Brilliant, ok, thanks very much. So, in terms of what we’re going to serve with it – what do you serve around your Christmas table? We’ve got some – is this brandy sauce?

S: Brandy sauce, yes. Personally I go for brandy sauce. Obviously we have brandy sauce producing here, we’ve also got brandy butter, some people prefer the butter

O: I’ll have the butter

H: Do you? I like the sauce actually

O: Oh I like both

H: Which one do you prefer?

S: Definitely sauce

O: Really?

S: Yes

O: Come on

S: And again it’s a tradition in my house, my wife actually does the brandy sauce, I do all the rest of the meal but she does the sauce

H: Really you do it all? Wow

S: Yes

O: Has she got a secret ingredient?

S: Yes she has

O: You’re not going to tell us then?

H: Now let’s get our spoons ready

O: Yes

H: But we’re not going to tuck in yet because you have to tell us what we should be drinking with it

O: Yes well there’s many choices with Christmas pudding, depending on what you want to bring out, what aspect of the dish. You could try for example a sherry. I’ve got here Matusalem sherry, fantastic stuff, often referred to as Christmas pudding in a bottle. Widely available, it’s 30 years old, if you’re a fan of those very nutty flavours think of a walnut, you know they have that slightly bitter kick on the skin?

H: Yes

O: All about that. Really dark, really rich, bring out the nutty element in the dish and work with the fortified element. Port, traditional, I love tawny port, I’ve got here Ottoma ten year old tawny port, again widely available for about £10, absolutely fantastic, will bring out the dried fruit aspect of the dish, the raisins, all those sorts of things. Stunning stuff and increasingly you know modern packaging –

H: Yes that’s beautiful, it’s so important the labelling nowadays, isn’t it?

O: And also it’s not a huge great bottle

H: Yes

O: Because you know you can actually get through that. Botrytis Semyon, also – this one here, Hermit’s Hill is from Australia, this will bring out of all of the citrus peel notes, all of the lemon peel that you go charging around with your net to catch! That’s that bad boy there

H: I’ve got a wonderful image –

O: I think though, however, my all time favourite match has got to be, slightly curiously, sparkling moscato, and – I know – it’s a bit pervy, it’s a bit kinky but two hands, brilliant disguise, sparkling moscato – that’s basically the similar stuff to Asti Spumante, the reason I love this, it’s sparkling wine, it’s very light and fizzy, the sugar content works with absolutely everything in the dish, and paradoxically it’s got low alcohol, around 8%, but that at the end of your Christmas dinner

H: Yes you’ve probably had enough

O: Will see you through because you’ll fall asleep in front of the queen otherwise, and this will keep you disco dancing right up at Her Majesty! Brilliant! Absolutely magnificent stuff

H: I’m a bit dubious about the sparkling bit, so shall we each try a bit of that?

O: Yes indeed, I think we should because the textures –

H: And we can tuck in

O: It’s an extraordinary contrast between the two textures, you get the sparkling lightness of this, and then especially with this pud because it’s not a thick, heavy, dense Christmas pud

H: Yes

O: I love this, it’s all about delicious flavour – elderflower smells, I mean I could go on about wine all day, you know I could –

H: Yes we’ve only got 25 minutes

O: I know

H: Mmm very fruity

S: Cheers

H: Fruity let’s –

O: I’m diving into the pud

H: Let’s have them together now to get the full effect

O: Luscious, juicy pudding

H: Wow. We could probably get through all of this couldn’t we?

O: Easy. Mmmm that is so yummy. I just got one of those juicy fruit bombs. I want a cherry though

S: I had a cherry

H: I want that big nut there. That is so good, so good. And do you know I now realise that I’ve been giving my guests the most rubbish Christmas puddings year on year because they’re so dense, you can virtually slice them

O: How about that fruit?

H: That is so delicious. Ah and I haven’t – have you had the wine with it?

S: That’s just beautiful isn’t it?

O: It’s a revelation

S: it just really –

H: And as you say, it’s quite light as well

O: Really light

H: And fresh, so you haven’t got that laden down sensation

O: Exactly

H: Let’s carry on drinking this while you answer another question

O: Oh fire away

H: Because Jo says she finds desert wine too sweet, can you recommend an alternative to go with the Christmas pudding? This is quite sweet isn’t it?

O: It is quite sweet but it’s not as sweet as some, so it is quite an interesting wine if you want –

H: It’s not heavy

O: Exactly it’s not heavy, so I do recommend trying this. If you want to try something that isn’t sweet you could try something like a sparkling Shiraz which is more savoury, but to be honest with you I think if you’re not a fan of sweet wines, I would almost stick with something like tawny port actually, that’s not as sweet as some of the ports, it’s got more savoury raisin fruit elements and it’s not about sugar, so much as aged flavour, so tawny port might be one to try. Chill it down though because it’s a beautiful counter poise between the pud – think about ice cream and hot pud, it’s just that wonderful counter poise so yes try tawny port. That’s for Jo

H: Ok thanks for that. It just occurs to me that I don’t know what this Christmas pudding is called – so I can go and get it?

S: This Christmas pudding is called “The pudding” because it is the ultimate pudding

H: The emphasis on “the”

S: It is the Matthew Walker – from Matthew Walker obviously, it’s “The pudding” – contains 13 ingredients, it’s just a fantastic creation which we’ve made and it is just traditional

O: Happens to have the classiest packaging in the world as well

H: Yes

O: It’s very cool

H: And now I want to ask you finally, what are you hoping to get in your Christmas stocking this year?

S: Well I just decided just now actually, I’m going to be wanting a case of all these wines because these are all fantastic – a whole case

H: Fantastic

O: Well I’m going to repay the compliment, I would love a stack of Christmas puddings

H: Oh goodness me

O: But also socks, I really need socks! Quite genuinely I never find a sock

H: I hope your wife is watching!

O: I really hope she is because I really need them

H: Well I’m not going for socks or wine, I’m having George Clooney in my Christmas stocking. I’ve ordered him so I’m sure I’m going to get him!

O: You need a big stocking

H: If you want – if you didn’t manage to catch all the names of the wines that Olly’s recommended then there’ll be a list of them as part of the text of the show that you can find in the website in a short while, and if you want ideas for the Christmas meal and various other things, you can go to the website that is Matthewwalkerchristmaspuddings.com. Thank you very much for watching, I hope you’ve enjoyed it as much as we’ve enjoyed it, let’s wish ourselves an early Happy Christmas

O: Happy Christmas

S: Happy Christmas

H: Thank you very much, cheers

S: Cheers

O: Cheers

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