Getting help and advice about first-time pregnancy used to be a simple matter – you’d look to your family and friends. But today’s would-be mums are faced with 21^st century challenges that make it more complicated, and it’s leading them to seek out new ways of finding support. If you’re among them, our WebTV Show with parenting expert Suzie Hayman can help.

Today’s modern mum faces increasing pressure, with expectations of being able to juggle work, be a doting mother and loving wife all in one. Images of celebrity ‘yummy mummies’ adorn the pages of today’s women’s magazines and often leave us feeling that little bit inadequate. These pressures have also meant that today’s women are choosing to nest much later in life with the average age of first time mums now at 29.

A lot of women are now working until the very late stages of pregnancy and new mums going back to work sooner in order to keep the money coming in so, find it difficult to relate to previous generations of ‘stay at home mothers’. They’re relying instead on tips and hints from complete strangers who find themselves in a similar situation. Increasingly, they’re turning to internet chatrooms and forums to get advice that previously would have been passed between family and friends.

So if you are keen to start trying for a baby, are struggling with the challenges of IVF, want to know how to cope with pregnancy when working full-time, or are a new mum looking for advice, log on to the Web TV show with Suzie and Faye Mingo from Bounty, the UK’s largest parenting club to find out how to maximise the quality of advice and support you receive before, during and after your own pregnancy. Suzie and Faye will also be answering your questions live online, so send yours in now using the form below.

Parenting expert Suzie Hayman joins us live online to discuss help and advice for first-time mums.

For more information visit www.bounty.com

H: Lis Speight, host
F: Faye Mingo, Bounty
S: Suzie Hayman, parenting expert

H: Hello and welcome to the Parenting Show, I’m Lis Speight. Now then today’s modern mum faces increasing pressure with expectations of being able to juggle work, be a doting mother and loving wife all in one. Images of celebrity ‘yummy mummies’ adorn the pages of today’s women’s magazines and they often leave us feeling – well – a little bit inadequate. And these pressures have also meant that today’s women are choosing to start a family later in life with the average age of first time mums now being 29 which seems quite late to me. Well here to talk about coping with the stresses of being a mum is parenting expert Suzie Hayman, hello Suzie, lovely to see you today

S: Hello Lis

H: Lovely to see you today. And also Faye Mingo from mum’s community website Bounty. Hello Faye

F: Hi there

H: Great to see you today. Now of course we are live so if you have any questions at all for our two lovely ladies then do get them into us. All you have to do is to type your question that’s in the box on the screen, pop your name in there as well, press submit and it will come through to us here in the studio and we’ll try to get through as many as we can during the course of the show. But let’s start by talking a little bit about today’s modern mum and the various stresses and strains that make us all a little bit stressed out. Susie what’s going on?

S: I think in a word, mobility. I mean the point is that we often no longer live next door to or in the next street to our aunts and uncles, brothers, sisters, mum. So you can’t sort of drop next door necessarily, you’re not in a community to get the sort of support and have the questions answered. I think also that it used to be that you might have seen older brothers and sisters born,

H: Oh that’s true

S: Or you saw – younger brothers and sisters born, or you’ll see your older brothers and sisters having their own children. So as you grew up you probably saw babies a lot more

H: You were around younger children and babies much more so you knew what to expect

S: You knew what to expect, and of course nowadays the first time you touch a baby it’s yours and you’re being handed it without the instruction book, and it’s where do you go for help? Where do you go for advice? And I think as you said the pressures of sort of wanting to be perfect, wanting to achieve at work perhaps, you know the work ethic has sort of put that, bound that sort of line, that standard of I need to know what I’m doing, and it’s a bad thing to say that I don’t know. You know confessing that I don’t know something, asking a question almost means that I’m inadequate, I’m incapable, I’m incompetent. And nobody wants to appear that. And so you know, where do you go to ask questions when you don’t want to let yourself down in front of the people around you?

H: So Faye do you think people are turning to different places now to try and find out about kids and babies and what have you? I suppose your friends and – who do mums talk to or expectant mums talk to these days?

F: Sure. I think that they obviously do talk to their friends, particularly if they’ve had children themselves and they’ve gone through those experiences, but online and the internet is certainly becoming much more popular. We’re seeing that the forums in particularly, chatting very openly about quite sensitive subjects sometimes

H: Yes. Because you can, because you don’t know the person at the other end

F: You’re anonymous, yes, and it’s non-judgmental. And so people are going online, and into those forums and just having very open conversations and they feel reassured, they feel supported. It’s not to say that they only go into forums

H: Yes

F: They then read the books, they ask the midwives, they speak to their parents, they speak to other friends

S: Friends, neighbours

H: You can always telephone your mum even if she’s 3 miles away can’t you –

F: Absolutely

H: Or 3 hours away should I say

S: But there is that bit about not wanting to sort of seem silly, and I think that this has always perhaps been there and maybe you could at least ask your friends, or get the information because you’re all in the same position. Now you know your friends may be having children 5 years before you or 5 years after you. There’s that bit of do you have people around you who are in the same situation, and having the same anxieties? And that’s the wonderful thing about the internet. You can go on and particularly on bounty.com there are going to be thousands of people there at any one time, and probably quite a few of them when you ask the question or disclose an anxiety are going to say “me too.” You’re not the only one and that is so reassuring

H: But how do you know that the advice that you’re being given is kind of ok? Because particularly if you’re asking medical questions, I mean how do you know there’s not some weirdo out there whose putting in a load of nonsense?

S: Ah but that’s the point of course, you don’t necessarily ask medical advice from other parents, you ask for reassurance. You ask for ideas and options which you can pick and mix. If you want the specific medical advice, that maybe a first step, or they give you the signpost to go and speak to a doctor, go and speak to your midwife. Or you can go to the tried and tested professionally written information on places like parentlineplus.org.uk or bounty.com. That’s where you can get that recognised trusted advice. But I think when it’s parent to parent, it’s mostly about getting self-confidence and recognising you’re not the only –

H: Am I normal? What does that mean to my child?

F: Yes exactly

H: Is this happening to you?

F: It’s top tips a lot of the time, it’s kind of what did you do in this situation? And then you get so many different responses and you kind of go yes well that would work with my lifestyle –

H: That’s right

F: That’s the way I’m going to do it, or that’s it – seems to be how it works

H: So modern mums then, we’ve got a lot going on in our lives haven’t we? I mean Faye you’re a working mum –

F: Yes

H: You’ve got a little boy. Explain to me a little bit about how we, our generation, may be different from our mums, our grandparent’s generation?

F: I think the pressures have changed enormously. As you’ve said people are trying to juggle careers with being the perfect mother and having the perfect family home, and everything else, and I think we’ve got to make sure we don’t give ourselves too much of a tough time

H: Are we our own worst enemy really, trying to do everything fantastically –

S: Often

H: Something’s got to give really hasn’t it?

F: I think we’ve just got to relax a little bit because then a relaxed parent is a healthy parent and a healthy child. And I think again if you are open, if you do have an issue, be open and talk to other people, it can really help you sort of get through that sort of stuff and those issues, whether it’s potty training or teething or colic, everybody’s going through those things, you’re not alone and you don’t have to be seen to be perfect

S: That’s the point. You don’t want to be a perfect parent, you want to be a good enough parent, and I think talking with other women sometimes you realise this. In fact you know, hang the dusting, that’s not the important thing, talking and playing with your baby is. And also bring your partner in. I think one of the changes that is happened the last 10 / 20 years is how much fathers have become very much more hands-on with their children. I see this as a councillor, really, really good, the fathers are so much more in young children’s lives now

H: Yes, brilliant

S: And that’s helpful for mothers, marvellous for kids and good for fathers too.

H: Yes

F: And certainly as a working mum I couldn’t do what I do without my husband being part of that and picking up through childcare and everything else, so it’s very much a team effort now I think.

H: But what sort of role models do you think we have these days though? Because I talked in my intro a little bit about yummy mummies, all these celebrities – they all just seem to have babies, they just pop them out and then they come out looking all skinny in their skinny jeans and then they’re out to a premiere and la la la –

S: Yeah you know how they do that?

H: How do they do that Susan?

S: 24 hour nursing help, 24 hour nannies and a physical trainer. It’s utterly unrealistic and I think we really need to recognise this, that you know it is hard work having children and it changes your life forever. You can never say oh we’re going to be the same afterwards, no you’re not – why do it if – it’s going to be a tremendously profound change on your relationship, on your lifestyle, on everything, and that’s going to be wonderful if you can at least expect it. And I think talking with other parents in forums is when you start realising. It’s damn hard work, but my goodness you get the rewards, if you recognise it, you have to go with the flow, and accept constant change. There’s never going to be a moment when you’re going to say I’ve got it sussed. I’ve got it cracked

H: Put your feet up, I’ve cracked it!

S: Never. It’s always going to – the rules are always going to change from day-to-day let alone month-to-month or year-to-year. And that’s fine. If you know it’s coming, talking with other people you can recognise that. But for heaven’s sakes, never take as a role model, the people you see in the celebrity mags, because their lives are utterly unrealistic and you’re not being told the full story, of a) what sort of help they’ve got and b) actually what their children really think about it. Kids actually want you. That’s the most important thing in a child’s life, it’s not objects, it’s not even flying to places with exotic holidays, it’s actually having their parents’ time and attention. And again I think the more you talk to other parents the more you pick up on this. You’re their best resource. Have the self-confidence to realise it. You’re the most important person / thing in your child’s life

H: Yes. And are these celebrities happy really? Lots of divorces aren’t there? They’re not happy, we don’t want to be like them do we? We’d like their money wouldn’t we? Right, let’s move on to some of your questions now, and we’ve had one in from Chloe, and she says “what’s the best way to relax and to become stress-free to be able to conceive?” That’s a big question isn’t it? Any tips?

S: Yes it’s interesting because you often hear of people saying, you know, I’m trying for a baby, and I suppose the best advice I can give you is stop trying

H: Stop trying, yes

S: Stop trying. And there really is so much evidence to show that the more relaxed you are the less you’re, you know focusing on that, the better off – I mean if you have sex too often, actually you’re counting against rather than for. You know, maybe having sex at the right time, but actually the most important thing is just forget it, have a lovely life together, build up the bonds between you, because believe me –

H: They’re going to be tested -

S: When there’s another person in your life they’re going to be – you need to do it. Relax. If after – if before you’re 30, if it’s two years of regular, unprotected sex and you’re still not pregnant, then talk to a doctor. After 30, one year of regular, unprotected sex, then you talk to somebody. But quite frankly it takes – it can take up to two years before you’re 30 to get pregnant, and that’s absolutely normal and natural. So it really is about you know, not having sex for a baby, having sex for fun and having sex for love. Forget about it, it’ll come

H: Yes. And the more you concentrate on it, because every month you’re thinking – ooh, and everybody around you seems to be pregnant and it’s a very difficult time. I do sympathise with you, I really do, because it took me quite a long time to get pregnant and I went to see the doctor and she said oh I’ll refer you, but by the time you get your letter through you’ll be pregnant, and I was

F: And you were

S: That’s right

F: And also you go through that disappointment and sometimes you don’t want that, you don’t want that to affect your partnership

H: No so you keep it to yourself

F: You keep it to yourself

S: You shouldn’t, talk

F: Forums are great, I mean the Trying to Conceive forum on bounty.com is extremely popular because people can just use it as a sounding board

S: And a dump

H: Yes well exactly

F: Dump your feelings and then go away and forget about it, and I think that’s important

H: Yes. But it is good to talk about these things isn’t it, and you know and IVF and there’s a lot of difficult things out there and if you can talk on the forum or with some of your friends about it, it really is going to help de-stress you

S: That’s right

H: And – yes. So anyway, if that’s any help. Just go at it and try not to think about it too much

S: Enjoy

H: Right we’ve had another one from, in from Laura on a similar subject actually. She says “I’ve had my first baby and we’re now trying for a second, only it seems to be taking a lot longer than before. Should I be worried?”

S: I think sometimes you remember you know through rose-tinted glasses and I think sometimes it’s not that it’s actually taking longer, I mean it might be because of course you’re older –

H: Yes

S: And obviously you know the older you are the slightly less fertile you may be. So it might be that it’s longer but it could be just that you’re actually forgetting that you had – or you weren’t caring. You were just letting it happen. Now because you’re counting the months it seems to be so much longer

H: That’s right

S: I think, you know keep to that same rule. It could take up to two years for a perfectly normal, fertile couple having regular sex to get pregnant under the age of 30. And if it’s, you know, if it’s – so if you’re less than that, relax

H: Yes it will happen

S: And actually you want to have more than two years in between children, that’s the other thing I think –

H: Well that’s it, I know, because your body’s got to recover, and also you know you’ve got a toddler and a baby -

S: The kids – and sibling rivalry is far more likely if they’re actually nearer in age. The more – you know when a child actually starts going to nursery and starts having an outside life, outside the family life, that’s the point in which they’re going to be less jealous of a newcomer coming along

H: Yes. Now I said in my intro that women are leaving it later, 29 is the average now which means that there are obviously a lot of younger mums, but obviously a lot of older mums as well. Do you find that, Faye, on the internet, do people put their age – I don’t suppose they do, do they? But are there are lot of older mums out there now?

F: There are and again I think that because they’ve come to it later, they want as much information as they can have, so they’re very research-heavy

H: Right

F: They really want to find out the ins and outs of everything.

H: A little bit more controlling because I suppose if you’ve lived your life – say you’re 35, you’ve lived your life, you’ve got everything organised, you’ve got your fabulous house, you’ve got your job all sorted out, and when your baby comes along it’s got to be just perfect, and it doesn’t always work out like that though does it?

F: No. And again you’ve got to be open-minded and talk it through with people, I think that’s the key thing, regardless of your age to be honest with you

H: So Susie any advice as to when you should start thinking about having kids? Because 29 seems like a good age, but 39 maybe not so good?

S: Well except nowadays of course you know we are all going to live until, you know late 80s, 90s even 100s now, so that if you have them too young, I don’t know whether that’s a good thing or not. I think actually it’s a question of it’s individual choice

H: Yes

S: But we are healthier now, so the old idea of somehow 30 being an absolute barrier I don’t think is true any longer. You balance up – the greater confidence, the greater bond between the partnerships of an older family starting. Against maybe you’re in absolute peak of health when you’re a bit younger. It’s absolute swings and roundabouts. I think it has to be the right time for you. Although what is interesting, I’ve talked to a lot of people who’ve said, actually I wish I didn’t have to choose, I wish it had just happened. Because that’s one of the things they all go – it just happened to you, and sometimes if you’re thinking about it, can we afford it, should we do this – sometimes it’s rather nice to just say -

H: It’s never the right time

S: Let it just happen

F: One thing we’re finding as well is with the older mums is that maybe they had a child when they were young, left a gap and then they’re into becoming a mum later on in life, and things have changed

H: Yes

F: You know whether it’s the age of weaning or whatever the policies are, the recommendations

H: That’s right and things change really quickly actually don’t they?

F: Really quickly

H: Like 6 months for weaning now isn’t it? And my sister had hers about 10 years before I had mine really and she sort of said oh I thought it was 3 months

F: Well it would – it probably was when she was –

S: That’s what she was talking – things do change and you do have to keep abreast of the new ideas, because sometimes it’s just fads but sometimes there are sound reasons because we now know more, and that I think is about the older mums are perhaps getting on the internet to find out information and they come to an organisation such as you to do this, because they’ve got the habit of – in work – well go and find out something and they know how to look for information. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing because I think that self-confidence is actually one of the most important things in parenting

F: And being informed

S: And being informed. It’s not that you want to be perfect, it’s just that you want to feel – I can do this

F: In control, yes

S: And I’m ok, maybe not totally controlled because you can never be as a parent

H: You never know what’s coming tomorrow do you?

S: You have to accept being out of control. But it’s the self-confidence of I can cope, that actually perhaps is the important thing. And I know where to go if things are going wrong

H: Yes. And if things are going a bit wrong there’s always someone out there whose – it’s going a bit wrong for them as well and

F: Absolutely

S: And can identify with them

H: It is good advice isn’t it?

F: And lots of people as well, I mean we get round about 18,000 posts to our forums a day

H: You get 18,000 a day?

F: Yes and that’s over 90 forums

H: How do they have so much time on these hands, these women? I bet they’re doing that at work!

F: Nap times

S: Very quick

H: Yes nap times exactly, that’s the only chance we get to put our feet up

F: 2 o’clock in the morning is quite popular as well actually. Night feeds

H: And that’s another big advantage of course of the internet, that you can’t ring your friend or your mum at 2 o’clock in the morning and sometimes you can’t get your blasted partner up, but the internet –

H: Is always there

S: There’s bound to be a whole load of other people who are also, for whatever reason, awake and chatting

H: Or archives, there’s a lot of archive stuff on there as well actually

F: Yes

H: It’s a brilliant website, the Bounty website, it really is, there’s absolutely tonnes on there Faye isn’t there? Tell us a little bit about what’s on the website for those that have never been on

F: Yes, I mean we have information on there and how people conceive, all the way from getting parents prepared for the children going to school. I was going to say the children to go to school, but I think they’re ready, it’s the parents that need that advice, yes. So it’s very extremely broad and obviously we’re there throughout every step of that journey

H: Yes. Potty training, recipes, weaning – there’s everything on there. It’s really good isn’t it?

F: You name it we kind of cover it. Also we know that it can be tough financially when you’re becoming a new parent, so we obviously provide lots of coupons and also there’s the Bounty bags, the infamous Bounty bags, in terms of giving people the chance to try products before they have to actually go and buy them

H: Yes so it’s definitely worth a visit, isn’t it?

F: Absolutely

H: Right well let’s move on to some more of your questions now, and keep them coming in. we’ve had one in from Elisabeth, she says – a little bit about conception again. People are obsessed with it aren’t they? “Fast approaching the wrong side of 25” – there’s nothing wrong with being the wrong side of 25 is there? “I’m beginning to feel the pressure to find a man, settle down. Realistically should I be worried about not being in a relationship yet, as I really want a family life?” Susie’s looking grey!

S: Well purely because I cannot tell you the number of letters I get as an agony aunt, and the number of people I council, who are in awful relationships because they felt that pressure to get a man, and to get a relationship to keep up with everything else

H: Settle down, have a baby –

S: Yes and keep up with this idea of where they thought they ought to be, and there is nothing worse than being in a sub-standard relationship.

H: With a child

S: That’s the worst of all. And I think really – 25? Do you realise –

H: Yes. Spring chicken

S: That at 25 you’re only a quarter through your life? 25 – you are going to live to 100, you know so do you want to choose someone now that you’re going to be with in 75 years? You are far better off relaxing

H: Let it happen

S: Living your life, making friendships and waiting for the right person to come along, rather than grabbing the person that, in the heat of “I have to get married and I have to have a man and I have to have children” – actually turns out to be the wrong person. Think how disastrous that would be to you and to that child. So no 25 is not –

H: Plenty of living to do yet isn’t –

S: Plenty – and even you know 30 used to be the idea – that’s the biological clock and once you got to 30 you really ought to have your baby as soon as possible. Even that is no longer true, it really isn’t. Yes there are slightly more risks as you get older, but you know that’s balanced up with so much better healthcare, and also, as I said this whole thing about being confident and being, you know feeling that in fact it’s right, the relationship is key, and it’s critical and don’t try and rush it

H: Yes ok

S: Otherwise you’ll be writing to me

H: Don’t panic, don’t panic

S: Don’t panic

H: There’s plenty of fish out there, you’ve just got to have a long rod and you’ll reel one in eventually, yes. Right we’ve had one in from Sarah, or Sara, she says “I’m 4 years older than my husband and I know the clock is ticking. Will this stress be counter-productive when we agree to try for a baby?” People are a bit obsessed about conceiving aren’t they?

S: It’s important

H: It’s taking up a lot of time isn’t it?

S: The beginning is important, I think you want to have the right beginning, you want to get on your way. And I think one of the big anxieties a lot of women have is will I be able to get pregnant, and I think the number of unwanted pregnancies actually get started by young people wanting to test their fertility

H: Oh dear

S: Because of course you know there’s an easy way for men to test their fertility, take along a – you know, and get it tested. Women can’t without actually doing it. So I think there’s a lot of anxiety there. And as I, you know as I’ve already said, don’t think about the biological clock ticking, because in fact it’s probably no longer true, but also it’s so much more important for both of you to be ready

F: I think it goes back to the pressure that women are feeling. They want it all and it’s kind of just let it happen and let it fit in with your lifestyle. Don’t push for anything too soon

H: I mean do you think we’re being a bit greedy really, because if you look back at our grandmothers, I mean they didn’t go out all the time, they didn’t go on fabulous holidays, they didn’t have amazing houses, they didn’t have lovely jobs – I mean we’re giving ourselves a bit of a hard time, really we’ve got it quite good Susie –

S: We’ve got it extremely good and I think you’re quite right that we do want it all, as Faye was saying, the idea is I want the perfect life and the perfect this and the perfect that, and I want to be perfect, and I want everything that’s out on the table. Rather than actually sometimes sitting back and thinking what are my priorities? And I think sometimes you have to do that actually in a relationship and certainly in the family, is sit back and think ok, if I wrote the long list of all the things I wanted, but how would I prioritise them and which are the ones on top? And I think the relationship really should be the one at the top. Get that relationship right, have both of you online, you know together on what you want, and if there is a mismatch, if you’re saying I want a baby and he’s saying I’m not ready yet, maybe then you need to talk about, you know what is the anxiety there? Is he panicking for whatever reason? Do you need a bit of help? Would it help to talk to other women, to other couples, to a councillor, to sort out what was going on? But you’re only going to find that out if you start talking about it rather than just saying, we’ll listen to the push of the body as it were, the push of the hormones, and rush into something and then find out it was the wrong thing to do

H: So don’t panic, we’re doing alright

F: Don’t push it

H: We’re nearly out of time, we’ve got one last question in from Lucy. She says – this is hilarious – “my partner says he wants to be a stay-at-home house husband and jokes that looking after the baby in the house would be a walk in the park. What would you say to him?” Faye?

F: Well done you, come on, go for it and see

S: You go boy!

F: Give it 4-6 months. I mean in terms of trends there’s about 150,000 stay-at-home dads

H: Right

F: And I have total admiration for them. I don’t think it’s as easy as maybe he may think

H: Well let him find out

F: What do you think?

S: Absolutely not. Well I think he’ll learn that the point is that yes being a parent, being a hands-on parent is a damn hard job, and of course we’re not born knowing how to do it, you don’t, when you’re given the baby suddenly by osmosis you know become an expert, you have to learn. And I think what is really, really good is the number of dads who actually are mixing in – I mean maybe he’s just joking, maybe he’d like to, maybe his joke is a way of saying I really would like to do this, can I please? But I’ll have to make light of it. My stepson is a stay-at-home, was a stay-at-home dad for a year, and it was absolutely fantastic because their child had a year alone with her, a year alone with him, and now they mix it

H: That’s so great isn’t it?

S: And the relationship between the three of them therefore is absolutely fabulous, and I think that’s so important for children. They need dads, they need that connection. The dads need it too. So let them get on with it. Encourage men to do this. If they’re not going to be house-husbands at least they should take you know a major share of bringing up their children. And have people like this go out and sort of say look how easy it is, you do it too, come in too

F: Yes encourage more

H: Yes. Because I mean it is difficult staying at home with the kids,

S: It’s very hard

H: It’s not a walk in the park

S: It’s not a walk in the park

H: But anyway. Good luck with that!

S: He’ll learn. He’ll learn!

H: He’ll soon learn yes! Well that’s all we’ve got time for I’m afraid so thanks very much to Faye and Susie for coming in and talking to us

S: Thank you

F: Thank you

H: And if you’re about to conceive, if you’re pregnant, if you’ve got a baby or a toddler then you’re not on your own. All you have to do is to go onto the website which is www.bounty.com and there’s tonnes of advice on there, so why not click online and someone will sort you out I’m sure. Well thanks very much for watching the Parenting Show and we’ll see you next time. Bye bye.

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