Creativity expert Roger von Oech offers advice on engaging & getting the most out of your team in meetings

When discussing the big business issues with your employees or clients it is vitally important to make sure they are 100% engaged all the way through the meeting.  The problem is, the boardroom isn’t always the most inspiring place and, understandably, meeting attendees can spend more time drifting to distraction than offering their contribution.  Indeed, in research conducted by Crowne Plaza Hotels & Resorts, 83% of respondents say they only pay attention to the first half of the meeting. 

More than 1 in 10 Brits admit that they have fallen asleep during a tedious meeting and more than a third frequently catch themselves on the brink of dropping off. 

Join creative expert Roger von Oech who has designed innovative business tools to help solve those common meeting problems that everyone experiences such as loss of concentration and inability to meet the meeting’s objectives. Roger has written several books on creativity and is going to be sharing his secrets on how to stimulate others, no matter how long the meeting over-runs, in our live webchat.

For more information visit www.crowneplazathinktank.com

H: Murray Norton, host
R: Roger von Oech, Creative Expert

H: Hello and welcome to the Business Show, I’m Murray Norton.  Now business meetings with clients and employees are obviously very important, but let’s face it, sometimes it can be more boredom than boardroom!  Chances are you could be one of the many drifting off during a meeting.  In fact 83% of people surveyed by Crowne Plaza hotels and resorts said they only paid attention to the first half of the meeting anyway!  Well pay attention now and concentrate as we’re joined by creative expert Roger von Oech who’s come in with some great ideas to make sure that a meeting is as productive and stimulating as possible.  Roger, welcome to the show, thanks very much for being here

R: Pleasure to be here

H: Now before we start I’m just going to mention that this is a live show, so you can of course send your questions in, and you can send your questions into us, just in that little box at the bottom there, fill them out, send them in to us, they’ll come up on this screen right in front of us here.  Great questions already in – Roger I’m going to go straight in with a question

R: Ok good, fire away

H: We’ve got some good ones in here.  We’ve got one from Nat who said “what’s the key to a successful meeting?” Boy that’s a long question!

R: Well I think the key is having the participants engaged in the meeting, having them involved

H: Right

R: And if it’s a brainstorming meeting, even more important is having the expectation that people use their creativity, you know wanting their ideas, wanting their involvement, so I would say the expectation of their involvement is very important

H: Engaged is a really important word isn’t it?  And that means so many different things to so many people, but it’s just having them interested

R: Yes absolutely and giving them a license to share their ideas and you know I think one of the reasons some of the meetings are less successful is that there’s not the engagement, there’s not the stimulation for the people.  One of the things that Crowne Plaza has done and working with them we’ve developed something called the Think Box and it’s a set of tools that a meeting planner can use in a meeting to help get the ideas out of our participants in a meeting, and I think it’s a real step ahead for the whole meeting industry

H: Ok.  I’ve got plenty of questions coming in, there’s one that’s just come in that’s a great question from Paul Mackenzie-Ross and it’s for Profit.com and this is really good – “Roger” – he says – “is there an optimum timescale to which engage your audience?”  If you’re in a meeting, you’re running the meeting, how do you go about this with potentially long meetings?  Do you split it up into 10 minute chunks or do you -

R: That’s a great question.  I find that the smaller the number of people typically the longer you can go on, at least that’s my experience during creativity sessions.  If I have a large number of people I find that longer than an hour and a half is less productive, but if I have say 10 or 5 people you can go a lot longer. And also I think it’s important to break the meeting up.  I think that people get tired of doing just lots of verbal stuff, you know 20 or 30 minutes at a time and that’s why – well here’s one of the products that’s in the Think Box, it’s the amazing ball of whacks, and -

H: Tell me – this is not wax with an x, this is whacks as in a whack on the side of the head?

R: Yes – I’m known, probably my most famous product is the book of Whack on the side of the head, so it’s that kind of whack, and this is a product I came up with a couple of years ago.  It’s a set of 30 magnetic design blocks, and it’s a rhombic triacontahedron, and it’s magnetised and so you can pick it up and you can turn it into a lot of shapes, and there’s something about engaging one’s hands and eyes that really stimulates a lot of brain activity, and so by making shapes and doing some of the exercises that come with this, participants – well it’s like visual doodling if you will

H: Visual doodling, creative doodling – it’s letting your mind -

R: Here, why don’t you play with it?

H: Please, I will do, I’m going to play with it for some time

R: So, you know, our question asker I’d say get yourself a Ball of Whacks and get your thinking going, but again it depends on the individual, but I find that the way I structure my own meetings, I try to have something different every 20 or 30 minutes or so.  I collect old TV commercials going back about the last 40 or 50 years and I’ll show these at various times, sometimes there’ll be an exercise, sometimes there’ll be something inspirational but I think by varying the content it’s a great way to get people’s creative juices flowing

H: Ok and that means that whoever’s running the meeting has got to be creative in the first place?

R: Well at least be aware of some of the things they’re involved in the creative process, and one of the tools that is part of the Think Box is another one of my products, the Creative Whack Pack which is a deck of 64 creativity strategies, and this business has been real popular, it’s been a million seller over the years

H: Wow

R: And it has various ideas in card form that the person running the meeting can use to solicit ideas from the people.  For example one of them, or one of the creativity strategies is laugh at it, and I found that humour is a tremendous creativity tool.  If you can laugh at a problem or process or management structure, it frees your mind up from a lot of deeply embedded assumptions and allows you to get a look at what you’re doing in a fresh way.  So there are some instructions on this card to engage the group in some humorous ways of looking at your business or your product or whatever, and you know the chances are it will put you in a frame of mind conducive for more ideas

H:  Some great ideas there.  Amanda – thank you for your question – a question like many, many other people – “what do people get distracted by most when they’re in a meeting?”  Is it just boredom?

R: Well I think boredom by not having a clear topic, by not having a strong agenda, by not allowing people to participate or having in them feel engaged.  I think those would be things.  I think also when the lights go down – I read recently that something, there’s something like 50 million PowerPoint presentations taking place every day, and you know that’s a tremendous tool, but if every meeting is nothing but a PowerPoint presentation, the lights go down, well that’s almost an invitation to go to sleep, so I think you know, any activities you can do with the lights on, is to be commended.  It helps you be more successful

H: People being very interested about your motivation here Roger. “What was your inspiration” – says Wendy Buckingham – “for deciding meetings needed perking up?  Were you subjected to a particularly dull presentation yourself?”

R: Oh I think we’ve all been subjected to that – and also classes in school, you know the same thing.  I just think that if you’re going to have a successful meeting you’ve got to have people engaged and involved, and since my line of business is creativity and stimulating creativity, you don’t enhance your ability to be creative by being lectured at, you do it by doing it by getting involved, and what they can do with some of the tools in the Think Box is develop some exercises for the people to look at their problems and their projects and generate some ideas, so they are engaging, so -

H: It’s being engaging and I know Crowne Plaza have been pushing this forward and they’ve got the Think Box all set up there – Suzanne sent a question in which is to do with men and women, let’s spice open the whole battle of the sexes here – “who concentrates better, men or women?”

R: Wow. 

H: You’re going to be in trouble whatever you say!

R: Yes either way I go.  I found that both groups are equally creative during my sessions and -

H: Good answer

R: And you know it depends, I think I would say more is that people with the arts background or the people who are coming in from the sciences, I find that, you know one strategy that I stress is the idea of look for the second right answer, look for the third right answer and I think a lot of us, especially those coming through the sciences and perhaps engineering have learned a kind of thinking where you’re taught to look for the one right answer ,and that’s fine for certain technical problems, but most of the issues we deal with in life have a lot of right answers, so it’s important to go beyond that.  Giving an example, here’s a simple thing – what is this?  What is this Murray?

H: It’s a pen

R: Ok that’s the first right answer, but if you had the attitude of saying what’s the second right answer here well you’d say it’s a pointer, it’s an ear cleaner, it could be a weapon, you take a self-defence class this becomes a weapon, it’s an advertising medium, it’s a coffee stirrer, a telephone dialler, a hole punch, it’s all these things, so -

H: There are a million right answers

R: Rather than putting in the pointer like men and women, it’s – if you’ve had training more along the line where you’ve been taught to look for the one right answer, things go off the stray you may have less of a – more challenges with that

H: Lauren’s with a question as well, Lauren wants to know “what are your top tips for staying engaged during a meeting?”  We’ve heard all sorts of stories of people even having elastic bands on their wrists that they ping just to keep them awake, I mean that’s a pretty extreme case of a bored meeting, but what would be your tip?

R: Well again I would say have some exercises, not only creativity exercises, if you can turn the topics in the meeting, the issues at hand into things where you’re soliciting answers and ideas from the participants, also having an expectation on the part of the people who are coming to the meeting to come up with ideas.  I heard a great idea earlier, a man said that whenever he was told to go to a meeting he had to come with two creative ideas every meeting, and he found that he was a lot more engaged, and you know he participated a lot more, so you know no matter what it is, people tend to behave in the way that they’re expected to, so if you have the expectation of your people to be creative in the meeting, to come up with ideas, they’ll generally reward you with that

H: From what you’re saying it sounds like preparation not only for whose running the meeting but preparation for the people who are going

R: Absolutely, absolutely

H: just going on from all of that here, we’ve got Kelly Sharp who sent a question in to us, Kelly thanks for the question.  Someone’s in a meeting, especially a creative brainstorms, it comes to an end where the discussion stops and you’ve got to pick it all up again.  Have you got any hints or tips for opening new channels for discussion, because you can only go so far with whatever it is you’re talking about?

R: There are a variety of things you can do there, one of my favourite ways is to ask what if questions, and if you think it – if you’re thinking goes down the same line right here then it’s tough to see the good ideas behind you by looking twice as hard at what’s in front of you.  Now what – one what if question is to ask – what if somebody else had my problem, what if Walt Disney were trying to solve this problem?  What if Picasso were trying to solve this problem?  How would these people approach it?  I see you’re having fun with the Ball of Whacks!

H: I – you better take this back, I can’t leave it alone -

R: No it’s good, you’re making this a lively event right now.  But that gets your thinking out.  Another time, the one I mentioned earlier too, you know using the humour, this is especially good if your thinking is getting stultified, so those are a couple of ones.  Oh here’s a juicy one for you – challenge the rules if you can.  It’s – as I see it, there are two sides to innovation.  Innovation that’s constructive, I think it’s probably easier to come up with new ideas and new strategies and new solutions, but the challenge in innovation is the destructive side, and that means letting go of what worked for you two years ago or six months ago or last month.  It may have solved your problem then, but may not be the best way to deal with what’s going on now.  So if you could turn that into -

H: That’s like breaking the rules isn’t it?

R: Well it is breaking the rules and that’s something I encourage in a Whack in the Side of the Head if you will, and using the Ball of Whacks and so on.  I think that most advances in science, technology, mathematics, architecture, marketing, PR – you name the field, you name the industry, have come about when someone’s either challenged the rules or at least temporarily suspended the rules in their imagination.  Now I’m here saying break the rules – I’m not encouraging any of the viewers of this program to do anything that’s illegal or immoral or unethical or against the business practices of your group, but again I think that letting go of what you did in the past is a good way to be creative in the future

H: Lucy’s got a question which is about concentration and focus.  “It’s often lost in meetings when attendees have half an eye on the matter in hand and the other half on their Blackberry, their mobile phone”.  Can you suggest how we avoid this situation without banning the Blackberry, because you know people will still need to have emails, they will still need to have some form of communication sometimes so how do we get round that?

R: Well you know again I’d say engage people, and I mean the way I run my own meetings, it will be maybe 10, or 12 or 15 minutes of me talking about various principles, ideas, and then turn it right back over to the participants, and if you’re trying to solve a problem with 4 or 5 of your peers, well you’re going to look pretty silly going into your Blackberry, your telephone if you’re trying to solve a problem at hand, so again you know try to make it exercise based and also make it relevant, make it so that oh this material is worthwhile to the success of this group, and if you’re not paying attention or if you’re doodling around or whatever, you’re going to miss out so again I would say make the material interesting if you can and again you’re having a lot of fun with the Ball of Whacks there -

H: Well I wanted to bring this in because you know the worry is that someone may just have joined us now, be looking at this and saying “you know that presenter’s taking no interest at all in what this poor guy’s talking about, he’s messing around here” – I mean is there a danger that – I mean how does this actually work in a meeting, have you seen people sort of creatively go – got it! 

R: Oh yes with that tool and other tools like that.  It’s interesting – there’s something about engaging one’s hands and eyes on a task that can stimulate brain activity, and you know over the last 2 million years of human evolution, a lot of that took place when the hand and the brain were developing together, but I’ll tell you about an interesting study that was done – a psychologist was trying to figure out how much using your hands and eyes working together would stimulate the mind, and so he ran the following study – two groups of people, one the controlled group and the other you know the one with the difference, were both given a mental equity exam, you know another is how sharp your thinking is

H: Sure

R: The control group was put in a study hall, a place where you’re reflective in your own thoughts for half an hour prior to be given the test.  The other group was given sharp knives and apples and told to cut the skins off the apples.  Basically peel the apples, you know for half an hour.  And then both groups took the test.  Well the group that had been using their hands and eyes did better on the mental equity test, so there’s something about getting your hands and eyes working which is what you’re doing there, I think it stimulates you

H: Yes

R: Now obviously you don’t want them doing it all that time but it’s a – you know again if they’re anything like me, I can do verbal stuff maybe 10 or 15 minutes at a time, and then I love doing other things, and if I can go back and forth and – so – that’s what I recommend

 
H: I can’t put this down, I’m making a different shape every time, it works terrifically well, it really does. 

R: See if you can make a flying squirrel out of it

H: Is that – you’ve got a book of all the different things you can make out if it -

R: There are a lot of things you can make, but yes the rhombic triacontahedron is the name of the geometric solid by the way

H: I’ll take your word for it

R: Ok

H: I’ll take your word for that.  When it comes to meetings it’s sometimes just about the length of time, and you mentioned earlier about an hour-and-a-half – I know people that do very much stick to the idea that the shorter the meeting, the better the meeting.  That’s not always the case obviously because you probably can’t get your messages out, but is there a good time for a meeting, would you say hey you set 30 minutes for a meeting, or 45 minutes?

R: Again there are all kinds of meetings, some meetings are ones in which you disseminate information, others you come to a consensus and – brainstorming meetings -

H: Are we better in the mornings, sorry to interrupt, I was just thinking – morning, afternoon?

R: It depends who you are.  Everyone’s got their own creative thinking style, I personally, I spend my mornings on the phone, I’m writing, I’m talking with business partners, then I try to swim at noon, that flushes my mind out.  My prime creativity time is typically from say 1.30 – 5.30 so in the afternoon.  Other people it’s flipped around, sometimes you know you’ve got your morning people, your evening people and you know you might just try and see you know when your groups are more effective, but I’d say by and large you’re going to get more people who are better in the morning – at least the coffee’s still working in their brains!

H: Yes but you could throw it open at different times of the day and see which one works.

R: You could, you could

H: 4 o’clock in the morning!  Oh maybe two – you’re too late

R: Actually you know doing seminars over the last 30 years I’ve – most of the time they’re done in meeting facilities, places like a Crowne Plaza, but I’ve had some strange ones, I once had a group that said ok let’s have our meeting at a lighthouse at 2 in the morning and so all the people showed up, and that was interesting, a lot of different ideas.  Another one was – there’s another hotel chain in the United States, and the client was General Motors so they said we spend all of our time, what we need to do is spend time where our cars are, so they had the meeting in the parking garage of the hotel

H: Sure

R: That was intriguing but after about 3 hours of smelling the gas and so on, we moved on, so -

H: Hey, let me give you back your Whack Ball

R: Ok

H: Roger thank you very much indeed, I don’t know what you make of all of that but it’s been fascinating talking to you -

R: Well I wish you and all of your many viewers a lot of success, a lot of creativity. 

H: Thank you very much indeed

R: Good luck

H: Thank you very much indeed to Roger and thank you for joining us today.  If you’d like any more information about the topic then all you’ve got to do is log online to Crowneplazathinktank.com, and we’ll see you next time with or without the Whack Ball.  Take care.  Bye bye