H: Murray Norton, host
L: Lesley Waters
J: Juliet Keller, Nutritionist

H: Hello and welcome to the Food and Drink Show, I’m Murray Norton. Today we’re talking about fish and who better to talk fish with than the celebrated TV chef of Ready Steady Cook and much much more besides, my friend in the kitchen so many times over, just by the book alone, and that’s Lesley Waters, good to have you with us, thanks very much for being with us

L: Nice to be here

H: Talking about fish today, are we readily accepting that we can cook fish at any time, are people prepared to do it, because at one time people were scared of cooking fish?

L: I think there’s a real mix, I mean I think that because of television programs like Ready Steady Cook it’s sort of opened it all up and people are much more willing to give it a go. I run a cookery school myself and I can’t believe the amount of people that are quite nervous about cooking fish, you know they feel quite nervous about it, but once they’ve been with us for a day or so they suddenly realise a) how fantastic it is and how easy it is to be successful at it

H: Is that because we see it in the raw state more often that we’d see - I mean we don’t see a whole lamb in the raw state do we, we see it cut down ready for us, so it’s that whole filleting it off the bone, all that nonsense?

L: I think that’s one of the reasons, but I mean thank God we’ve got fishmongers and the supermarkets will do it for you which is great, but I think it’s just understanding how to cook it. Often people will over cook fish which is the worst thing you can do because you just ruin it, and I think it’s getting people to understand that fish is already tender, you’re only cooking it to make it more palatable, and in some parts of the world they don’t even cook it, do they, like in Japan, and not to overcook it, and once you explain that and once they actually physically do that, the more they practice it the better they get at it, and it’s a confidence thing

H: Alright, so that’s cooking fish, the nutrition of fish is something that we really need to find out about and in order to do that we’ve got nutritionist and writer of “Miracle foods for kids” as well, and I’m delighted to say we’ve got Juliet Keller with us, Juliet thanks for joining us as well

J: Hello

H: Juliet when it comes to the nutrition in fish, are we eating enough of it and what do we get out of it?

J: Well we’re definitely not eating enough fish at the moment, we should be aiming for two servings a week, one of which is actually an oil-rich fish, so something like mackerel, sardines, heron, trout, salmon, those sorts of oil-rich fish, so one of those every week, two in total, and the nutritional benefits, there’s so much good stuff in fish it’s untrue, very very good source of protein which we need for growth and cell development. Also packed with different vitamins and minerals, different fish have different vitamins and minerals in them, but particularly the oil-rich fish, they’re packed with something called omega-3 fats, and it’s really important that we boost our intakes of these omega-3’s. We’re seeing them everywhere at the moment, we’re seeing them added into margarines, into bread, all sorts of things, but actually the oil-rich fish are the best sources of natural omega-3, and the reason omega-3 is so important is the fact that first of all it helps to keep our heart healthy. Omega-3 actually reduces the stickiness of the blood so it means that blood clots are less likely to form, and as a result we’re less likely to have a heart attack or a stroke, so just think oil-rich fish equals a healthy heart and you know you’ve got one of the key messages there, it really is that simple.

H: We’ll come back to those nutritional answers later in the show, and we’ll have some questions from you as well, but before we do anything else let’s go over to Lesley in the kitchen to see her whipping up a storm with fish

L: Hi I’m Lesley Walters and today I’m going to show you how easy it is to cook delicious recipes using seafood. Now fresh oil-rich fish is full of a vital ingredient we need for a healthy mind and body, and that ingredient is omega-3 and yes you can take it in a supplement, but how much better is it to cook and taste the real thing? So Juliet, this is one of my favourite fish, mackerel

J: And mine too, absolutely delicious

L: So this is a griddled mackerel bruschetta and it’s a really quick dish to make. All you need is a loaf of ciabatta bread, some olive oil, plenty of garlic, some berlotti beans which are in a tin which you’ve rinsed and drained, balsamic vinegar, plenty of cracked black pepper, some crisp salad leaves, some chopped flat parsley, or you can use the curly stuff, that’s fine and also the star, the mackerel fillets

J: Lovely mackerel.

L: The first thing I need to do is to wash the mackerel fillets. This is such a simple dish to put together, and that’s the brilliant thing about fresh fish isn’t it?

J: Yes I mean fish is really the ultimate fast food, you can’t get much quicker than fish when it comes to preparing meals

L: And it is quite an easy thing to cook this, the first thing we’re going to do, we’ve just washed the fish and patted it dry and I’m going to get the flavourings together for this and we’re going to use some flat parsley, and I’m just going to use a knife just to very very just roughly chop the parsley, and what I’d like you to do for me Juliet is just to bring a plate over, it’s just behind you there

J: Ok

L: And we’re going to just pan fry this mackerel, it doesn’t take any time, about two minutes each side, and I’m not going to over chop the herbs here, often if you over chop herbs then you lose all the flavour which you don’t want to do and I also need lots of pepper and I want slightly bigger pieces of pepper, cracked black pepper, so what you can do you can undo the top slightly and then what I want you to do is just grate them over – Juliet is my kitchen slave – mackerel is oil-rich –

J: Absolutely, I mean yes I mean fish is a fantastic food in terms of its nutrients, all fish is a great source of protein, it’s a great source of vitamins and minerals, but particularly the oil-rich fish are very very good for keeping our hearts healthy and that’s because they contain something called omega-3 fats, now actually the oil-rich fish are the best natural source of omega-3, we’re seeing omega-3 being thrown into all sorts of things, into flour, into margarine, into breads – all sorts of things like that

L: What do you think about –

J: Well I think if we can get it in a natural way usually the body is better able to cope with sort of like –

L: Yes

J: Nutrients in the way that mother nature intended really, so I would say you know get that one portion of oil-rich fish. I mean health guidelines are saying two portions of fish a week

L: Which is a portion – how much are you talking –

J: Well about 145g which is about 5 ounces

L: 5 ounces I’m still working in ounces. Keep going you’re doing quite well because we’ve got quite a lot of fillets here to do this with, lovely, alright and now what I want you to do, my kitchen slave, is to pick up the parsley

J: Ok

L: And add that in there, into the pepper and then just toss it together with your hands

J: Yes

L: And then I’m going to take the mackerel fillets and I’m going to do this to the flesh, I’m going to just take some olive oil and I’m going to just rub the olive oil into the mackerel like that

J: So this is actually really really heart healthy because you’ve got the omega-3 fats coming from your mackerel, and omega3 fats what they do is they help to make the blood less sticky, and of course that’s really good because it stops the blood from clotting too easily

L: Right

J: And we want to reduce blood clots because they lead to heart attacks and strokes so just simply think oil-rich fish equals a healthy heart, then of course you’re using lovely olive oil which is rich in those heart-healthy mono-unsaturates

L: And tastes great

J: And tastes great, so this is a real heart-healthy dish

L: Yes it is but as far as other fish, sort of non what we call oily

J: Oil-rich, yes

L: They’re pretty good for you as well aren’t they because they’re quite low in fat aren’t they?

J: Absolutely, I mean if you go for white fish or if you go for something like shellfish, they tend to have a really really low fat content and they’re also really low in calories, making them the perfect choice if you’re trying to lose weight, you know in the new year everyone’s trying to cut down and eat less fat and lose a bit of weight, so the white fish and shellfish are a particularly good choice for that, and also all fish is a very very good source of protein. Now we often think of fruit and vegetables and wholegrains as a good source of fibre to fill us up which is actually very true, but also protein we now know helps to keep us feel full, and it helps to keep us fuller for longer

L: Yes

J: Which means we’re less likely to snack you know, we’re not going to resort to those sugary and fatty snacks so much if we’re having a good intake of protein at meal times

L: Ok can you see what I’ve done here?

J: That’s lovely

L: So I’ve put the oil on the fish and now what I’ve done –

J: So that all the herbs have stuck –

L: So that all the herbs – the oil almost acts like glue

J: Yes

L: So we’ve got all of our pepper going onto here, I’m just turning that over there, and all we’ve now got to do is cook it, and this is going to take seconds. So this is the most difficult part of the dish and it’s going to be served on some lovely bruschetta with a nicely dressed salad. Alright get your pan nice and hot, you can either do this in a griddle pan or a frying pan, pick your mackerel up, that’s the noise that you want to hear. Put it into the pan, put it the crusted pepper and herb side down first. Straight into the pan and just let it sear on the top. This is quite an instant dish because once you start cooking the mackerel, as you know, it takes no time so while that’s cooking away, what you can do is to prepare the salad. Now I think you’ll really like this salad because we’re not just using salad leaves, we’re using the berlotti beans

J: Beans are fantastic because they’re packed with fibre so help to fill you up, and they count as one of your five a day so really good food to include in salads

L: So in here, whenever you dress a salad always put the dressing in the bowl first, followed by the salad ingredients, so I’m just going to put enough for one person, I’m just going to take a handful of salad – of course you could just do a huge amount of this if you wanted to, and then just toss all of that together

J: Lovely

L: So you’ve got the balsamic, olive oil and the nice sort of crispy leaves in there. You don’t need to add salt because we’re going to get the saltiness from the balsamic, and you’re going to get quite a lot of good flavour from the beans themselves. Right now let’s have a look now because pretty much this fish should almost be ready to turn over. Oh look at the colour of that

J: Wow

L: That is looking fantastic. Now it is important that you use a non-stick frying pan, otherwise it would stick. But I think you can see the colour on that is looking really good. Once it’s turned over, because the mackerel fillets aren’t too big and they’re not too thick, really that is almost cooked

J: And it absolutely smells delicious

L: Thank you. And to serve up you can just serve this on a little bit of crusty bread, crusty toast, or you can have a little bit of bruschetta which I’ve done here which is toasted and you can drizzle with olive oil if you want to. This is now cooked, if you’re worried about it just feel it, it should feel nice and firm, and that is now done, even just sitting in the turned-off pan it can carry on cooking. So then just take your lovely salad ingredients and just pile those on the top of your bread like that, and then for lunch I’d say probably one fillet per person, and for dinner two. And pile it over, like that – you can finish it off with a little bit of black pepper if you want, but to be honest with you it’s got plenty of black pepper on there. But what you do need to do now is to eat it straight away.

So to make this fish bistro stew which is full of fantastic ingredients, the first thing we need is a couple of sticks of celery which are finely chopped, a leek, finely chopped – it’s a good way of getting lots of vegetables in to start with

J: Sure

L: Plenty of garlic, a couple of cloves of garlic and some olive oil, and then we’ve got some dry white wine, some fish stock, a couple of tins of canned chopped tomatoes, some little baby cherry tomatoes which have been chopped, about 250g, a couple of tablespoons of red pesto which finishes this off and gives it a real richness, and then our fantastic fish we’ve got some Pollock, about 450g of Pollock, we’ve got 250g of hake and we’ve got about 12 mussels which we’ve scrubbed. Well this one is actually quite good for the whole family because the children will enjoy this, and it’s a lovely sort of rich sauce which of course I’m going to serve it with garlic bread, because we like that in my household, but you could serve this with pasta, you could serve it with rice –

J: Yes rice, brown rice

L: And the mussels are optional. I put the mussels in because I love them, but I mean if mussels aren’t your thing then you can put in some prawns. High in cholesterol or is that a load of –

J: Well actually I mean prawns do contain some cholesterol but the advice has changed when it comes to heart health, we always used to say no prawns, no eggs if you’ve got high cholesterol but actually more research has now shown it’s not so much the cholesterol in foods that’s the problem, it’s the saturates in foods that affect our blood cholesterol levels, and that’s because saturates act as building blocks for cholesterol, so the key message for a healthy heart actually is to cut down on saturates rather than worrying too much about the cholesterol in shellfish itself, unless of course your doctor’s advised you to do so, so really you know fish is actually a really great choice for a healthy heart, so the white fish and the shellfish are very low in fat, and the oily fish are great source of omega-3 fats which are really important for a healthy heart because they stop the blood from getting too sticky and help to reduce sort of blood clots from forming which are linked to heart attacks and strokes, so fish is actually a great choice for a healthy heart

L: Ok so I mean the great thing about seafish is the fact that you can, if you can’t get hold of Pollock or you can’t get hold of hake, you can –

J: Sure

L: Do this with mackerel, you could do this with Coly, you can change the fish around which is fantastic

J: Yes and I think the other thing, I mean white fish generally, whichever variety it is it’s got very similar nutrients so the white fish tends to be very low in fat and also it’s a very very good – all fish is a good source of protein, so when it comes to sort of like a healthy diet, you know if you’re trying to lose weight for example, if you want to cut down on your fat intake overall your white fish is a great choice and protein helps to fill you up, you know we often think of fibre and fruit and veg filling us up, but more and more research is showing that protein actually helps to satiate us and it keeps us fuller for longer, so it’s actually a great choice, you know an all round choice for sort of a nice, healthy filling meal

L: Yes

J: And I think the tomatoes actually, I mean children love tomatoes don’t they, I mean tomato sauce seems to be one of the really big hits and a way of getting vegetables into children

L: Well I think it just gives a nice bit of sweetness, and the pesto at the end really does give it the flavour

J: Adds that extra colour and that richness

L: Well I know that I’m going to serve this with garlic bread, but I don’t care I’m going to put more garlic in! So I’m chopping up these leeks now and I’m going to just show you how you can get the peel off your garlic. If you just take your garlic clove like that, and get a big knife and then just give it a little bit of a smack, you’ll find that you’ve crushed your garlic and you’ve removed the peel really easily

J: Fantastic

L: You can use garlic crushers, I’m not really a fan of garlic crushers, but do make sure that the board that you’re chopping your garlic on isn’t the one that you’re making the fruit salad with!

J: I mean the other great thing with garlic actually it means that you don’t need to add so much salt, if any at all, so the more flavours you can add from herbs, spices and garlic, also red wine and white wine – fantastic way to actually flavour food without adding the fat, and also without having to add any salt, because from a health point of view we should all be eating much less salt, so cutting down to a –

L: Yes that’s true

J: A maximum of 6g a day

L: And everybody goes on about, you know fat being an issue but salt –

J: And the reason for that, I mean too much salt in our diets can increase the risk of having high blood pressure, which in turn is a risk factor for heart disease and strokes, so it’s great news if we can avoid using salt wherever possible and get the flavours from lovely natural ingredients

L: Ok. Alright, I’m now going to wash these veg, I’m going to chop up the Pollock and the hake, we’ve got everything ready, so all we’ve now got to do is cook it.

Ok, so we’re going to start to cook this stew. The first thing we need to do is to get the vegetables, the leek and the celery really quite soft, and you want to do that first of all without the garlic in it, because if you burn the garlic it will taste bitter

J: Right

L: So get a big wok or a big pan and put your olive oil in there, and get it quite warm, and then add first of all your celery and your leek going in, ok? Now I’m using celery and leek but you know you could use very finely chopped –

J: Be great if you’ve got children you could put their favourites in, maybe peppers, and carrots perhaps?

L: Absolutely. What I’m going to do first of all, and this does take a little bit of time, so on a sort of medium heat, and just kind of stir it over the heat for about 5 minutes so you get the vegetables nice and soft in the olive oil, and once that happens you can add the garlic

J: Ok. Do you need to actually heat the oil up first or can you just put it in at the same time?

L: The best thing to do is to heat the pan first and then add the oil

J: Ok

L: And then add your vegetables. Right so what I’m now going to do is I’m just going to stir this over the heat for about 5 minutes just to soften the vegetables. Right ok, this has had a good sort of 5 minutes, I’m now going to add the garlic. The reason you don’t put the garlic in at the beginning is because you don’t want to burn the garlic

J: Right

L: The garlic will taste bitter. It’s best to add it after about 5 minutes

J: Smells delicious already

L: Smells really good. Oh fantastic. So once that’s happened what you can do is you can start to add your other ingredients. So I’m going to add in the white wine, don’t worry about this with children because obviously by the time this has cooked all the alcohol has boiled off

J: Right

L: Ok, so if you don’t want to put white wine in, you can use a little bit of extra fish stock

J: Ok

L: It’s the best noise in the world isn’t it?

J: Lovely

L: So the wine going in and really get that up to a good heat

J: Ok

L: And then the stock, or of course you could add water ok if you want to

J: So with your fish stock have you made that yourself or can you use stock cubes or –

L: It’s – well the thing is that this is fish bouillon so not a lot of people have time to make their own fish stock, but I have to say it is the most easiest thing to make, it only takes 20 minutes to cook and you need some fish bones, a few slices of onions and some peppercorns and you cover the fish bones in cold water, bring it up to the boil and then simmer it for 20 minutes and then strain it and you’ve got your fish stock

J: Ok

L: But if you haven’t got time then you can use fish stock cubes or bouillon. What I would say because of the salt thing, is to make it much weaker than what you think you need

J: Ok and then certainly don’t add any more salt to it?

L: Absolutely. Alright so that’s the wine gone in, the garlic and also the fish stock, I’m now going to add the canned tomatoes, they’re going in, we’re not going to add salt for flavour but we are going to add just a little bit of sugar, alright –

J: Ok

L: And that will help to bring out the flavour of the tomatoes, ok? So I’m just going to give that a stir, I’m going to bring it up to the boil and cook that for 12 minutes

Ok this has had 12 minutes simmering away, quite a fast simmer actually, I’m now going to add the cherry tomatoes going in. I mean you’re not cooking these to pulp so these will take about five minutes, and then once they’ve cooked a little bit we can then add the fish. The red pesto because it’s a red sauce, a couple of tablespoons going in there, and give that a really good stir and do that before you add the fish, ok stir that through so it’s really nice and rich

J: Oh that looks delicious

L: It’s pretty good isn’t it, it’s going to go very very well with the garlic bread.

J: Yes

L: Ok so once that’s stirred through like so you can then take your fish, we’ve got the hake and the Pollock, and I’m just going to sprinkle that onto the broth like that, like so

J: Do you actually stir the fish in?

L: Don’t mix it too much because you don’t want it to go mushy

J: Right

L: So what I’m now going to do is just add the mussels, and these mussels are absolutely fantastic and they’ve been washed, throw away any that are cracked or remain open once tapped ok, and these are really lovely fresh mussels, and I’m just going to drop them in. Now these are optional ok, if I was cooking this for my children I, what I probably would do is put them on one side,

J: Right

L: So that we enjoy the mussels and they’re not into mussels yet but they like prawns so at this stage you could put the prawns in

J: Right

L: Ok, so mussels going in there, nice and fresh, give them a good old wash, and then the final thing you want to do, because really the fish is not going to take long, that’s the fantastic thing about cooking fish, it just takes minutes, especially as we’ve cut the hake and the Pollock up into small pieces, one inch pieces, it’s really going to take no time. Also these are going to take no time to cook and they’re ready when they’ve opened up, and the best way to make sure of that is to now put a lid on.

Ok this is now cooked it doesn’t take long, the fish and the mussels have only taken just a couple of minutes and they’ve just been steaming under that lid. Best to use a big spoon or a big ladle, and just ladle it out. Those lovely mussels, sitting on the top like that. I’m just going to wipe my dish and this is just lovely if it’s just finished with a touch of extra virgin olive oil, optional, I love it, just a little bit over the fish there, and then don’t forget you can either serve this with some crusty bread for dipping, or if you’re feeling very naughty then perhaps you could just have some garlic bread on the side. Smells good!

Well I hope you found those recipes enticing, if you want to know more about my recipes, cooking with fish, and the two a week then go to www.seafish.org

H: Now didn’t that look fantastic and delicious? So now’s the time we take some of your questions and the first question’s come in from Joey, Joey thank you for the question, Joey wants to know about fish that are on the mild side. He’s very fussy about the fish he eats, and the only fish that he likes are the mild ones. Can you recommend mild tasting fish?

L: Probably the mild ones would be the white fish

J: Yes

L: So you could go for hake, Coly, Pollock – and also don’t forget shellfish as well because you know you’ve got some fantastic shellfish out there, which are really great, but please please maybe have another go at cooking the oil-rich fish. Mackerel, I think when it’s really fresh and simply cooked, maybe pan fried in a little bit of black pepper in some olive oil and served on a sort of mustard dressed salad is absolutely delicious and I think that often people think with oil-rich fish that it’s going to be really strong –

J: And I think it’s looking at what you’re actually serving it with isn’t it, so if you’ve got an oil-rich fish balance that out with something quite plain, so perhaps some nice sort of wholegrain or brown rice and a nice green salad, something quite fresh –

H: And mackerel’s not expensive, is it really?

L: Well that’s the interesting thing too because a lot of the oil-rich fish are really reasonable, when you look at things like sardines, herrings, mackerel, pilchards – they’re incredibly reasonable, and you know you can have those also not necessarily fresh, you can have them you know sort of in a tin and you can use them at any time, but as far as the slightly more mild tasting fish, I would go for something like hake, Pollock, Coly, haddock and also I think when you’re buying fish to perhaps go for slightly different ones, you know, people tend to buy an awful lot of cod and you know we know that it can be a bit of an issue here, so when we shop we need to be more responsible, you know there are over a hundred different varieties of shell – you know fish out there, so try something different

H: Mix it up a little bit

L: Mix it up a little bit and maybe have another go at the oily rich, have another go at it – try my mackerel idea, I think you’ll like it

H: Go for the mackerel. Other questions coming in, Jose with a question, great question come up on this one “hi Leslie” first of all from Jose, obviously a fan –

L: Hello

H: “One tradition we seem to have forgotten is fish for breakfast –

L: Oh yes

H: And “do you have any other ideas other than the smoked salmon or the kippers?” What else would you do

L: Oh I love kedgeree – oh I absolutely –

H: I was only talking about that today, it’s fantastic

L: Absolutely fantastic. And fish curry –

H: For breakfast?

L: Seriously, for breakfast. The first time I was in Thailand –

H: You’re a wild woman aren’t you, fish –

L: I had fish curry for breakfast, it’s fantastic, if anything’s going to wake you up fish curry is. For something maybe slightly more gentle, kedgeree I think for breakfast is fantastic, and if you’ve not tried it before if you use basmati rice which you can cook ahead and then you can use, I would use a mixture of oil-rich fish, so maybe I might grill off some mackerel and maybe have some Pollock, yes which I would maybe just gently poach off or maybe just lightly grill, and then you can flavour your kedgeree, your rice – if you get some butter in a pan and just heat it, and then a little bit of curry paste in there, maybe some madras curry paste, it’s quite hot just a couple of teaspoons and fry it off, maybe with some spring onions which you finely shred, then add your cooked rice and stir fry it, and then flake in that fish, and then I love to serve it with a poached egg as well, or some – traditionally it’s served with hard boiled egg but I love poached eggs for breakfast

H: Shall I just salivate a little bit more –

L: Lots of black pepper, and even some people liked to use smoked fish, because smoked mackerel, peppered mackerel fillets that you can buy in the supermarket. Now smoked fish is still good isn’t it?

J: Yes I mean your smoked fish actually counts as your you know two a week so definitely a good option, and it tends to keep a bit longer, the smoking is basically the preservative so you can have it in your fridge. Also you can get it frozen as well, really good option – or just say with your kedgeree as well, throw in some cherry tomatoes to get the fruit and veg portions in there, a great alternative to something like your orange juice for breakfast, so you can actually get a complete balanced meal with all foods from the three main groups, from that kedgeree

L: And if you use a smoked fish you haven’t got to worry about cooking it, all you’ve got to do is just take it out of the packet –

H: Perfect

L: Flake it and put it into your kedgeree

J: Delicious

L: Yummy

H: And it’s a Sunday breakfast ready-made isn’t it, it’s a weekend breakfast

J: It’s a real lovely brunch breakfast

L: I love it – and children like it as well, so if you don’t make it too spicy –

H: For the kids as well. Jamie’s got a question, Jamie’s question “Lesley you mentioned shellfish there just a moment ago there, what about omega-3 in shellfish, is there a good substance of omega-3 in shellfish?”

J: Well shellfish tend to be the same as white fish actually, but that’s not to say they don’t have loads of other nutritional benefits, I mean one of the things that we know with the shellfish and also the white fish, because they are so low in fat they’re also quite low in calories, so if you’re actually trying to lose weight then going for the white fish and going for the shellfish is actually a great great choice because it is low fat. Also you’ve still got all that lovely protein there, and we know, research shows that protein helps to fill us up and it helps to keep us full for longer, so opting for a protein-rich food like fish, whether it’s oil-rich or shellfish or white fish, really good at kind of keeping us satisfied, and that means that we’re going to be less likely to sort of get hungry between meals and fill up on all those sugary, fatty snacks that we seem to love so much!

H: Let’s face it, we’re an island, we’re not Switzerland here, we’re surrounded by water, we should –

J: Well exactly

H: Eat fish shouldn’t we, it’s obvious?

J: Yes and we should be trying different things as well, I think that’s really important

H: Sure. Alison with a question, Juliet you mentioned about fish and omega-3 but white fish, why does it reduce the risk of heart attacks?” She says her husband by the way has a high cholesterol at the moment so high cholesterol then I suspect shellfish we’ve got to be careful about but with fish in general it’s a great thing isn’t it?

J: Well I mean the key thing really when it comes to raise cholesterol, there’s two things, first of all to cut down on your total amount of fat in your diet, but also not just cutting down on the total fat but looking at the types of fats that you’re having, so reducing your saturates which are typically things like your animal fats and instead having the polyunsaturated or the monounsaturated fats. Now omega-3 is actually a polyunsaturated fat and this is the one that really helps to reduce blood clots, it also keeps the heart beating and ticking at a nice steady pace, so it’s kind of quite important to include those omega-3 fats. Also we know that the white fish is a good source of low fat. Now you raised a very important question about cholesterol and shellfish. Now in the past we were always told to avoid prawns weren’t we –

L: Yes

H: Sure

J: Prawns and eggs were the two no-nos if you had high cholesterol. What we know now is actually it’s not the cholesterol in foods that affects our blood cholesterol levels, it’s the saturates, and what happens is saturates act as building blocks for cholesterol, so if you take lots of saturates and join them all together, that’s what affects the cholesterol in our blood. The cholesterol in foods like prawns and eggs for example doesn’t actually effect our blood cholesterol levels in most cases, so it’s fine to go back to having eggs and prawns in our diet – unless your doctor advises you

H: That’s good

J: And this is you know it can’t often, you know as nutritionists “oh you’re always changing your messages” – it’s actually as more research is coming out and we become wiser and we have more knowledge, so you know – suddenly your husband, he doesn’t need to avoid shellfish unless he’s been advised to do so by his doctor. The key things really for him are to cut down on the total amount of fat in his diet, swap those animal fats for more of the vegetable and fish fats, and to include one serving of oil-rich fish every week

H: Well what a lot of information, but fantastic, thank you for that. Jane Grimmond, thank you very much for your question as well, great question from Jane, she wants to know about concentration and eating fish – is it an old wives’ tale that if you eat more fish you’re better and you concentrate more

J: Well it is brain food

L: Brain power

H: Brain food, I mean is it really brain food?

J: I mean it’s what our grandmother’s have been telling us for years, and great grandmothers –

H: Sure

J: Eat fish, it’s good for the brain

H: They obviously knew something

J: Yes there is certainly a grain of truth in this that we need sort of the oily fish, the omega-3’s for brain development and it’s particularly in pregnant women, pregnant women should actually make sure they’re having plenty of the omega-3 fats because it helps the nervous system and the brain of the developing baby to actually develop properly, and also the first sort of 18 months – 2 years of life it’s good to try and get children eating fish because brain development’s still going on. By the time a child’s about 2 their brain is pretty much as big, they’ve got as many cells as they’re ever going to have, and then it’s just a question of how much we put into those cells in terms of how brainy they are in later life, but I think you know the main thing, if you’re pregnant, don’t give up on the oily fish, have some of those oily fish – make sure you include it as part of your diet, and then when you’ve got children once you’ve sort of like started weaning them, make sure you’ve started introducing oily fish because that’s actually the time when they’re tastes are developing

L: They develop their taste buds, so the earlier you can get them to

J: Introducing the fish in general –

H: So it’s not a shock to the system later

L: Exactly

J: They’re more likely, you know if you wait until the child’s 5 or 6 before giving them fresh fish or frozen fish or canned fish and they’ve only ever had a fish finger, of course they’re going to turn their noses up at it because they’ve never tried it before, so get in as early as you can with the fish

H: Alright. Juliet Keller and Lesley Waters join us here; top chef is with us as well. Question in from Karen, good question as well – “her son is very fussy and will only eat certain fish. The only fish he likes is smoked salmon which she says is rather expensive” – the guy’s got good taste, obviously! Can you suggest any other fish that she can give to her son other than the smoked salmon that he’s likely to enjoy?

L: Well he obviously likes that sort of smoky taste, I mean probably something like herring or mackerel, or sardines on toast, I mean if he’s into that sort of strong taste would be great. There’s a lovely dish which I serve for my children with garlic bread and that’s just by pan-frying off some leeks and celery in a bit of olive oil. You then add some tomatoes –

H: Good vegetables

L: A splash of wine – you get your vegetables in there

H: Sorry did you say a splash of wine?

L: A splash of wine – don’t worry, the alcohol cooks off

H: Good

L: Yes in the cooking, so you won’t have a drunk child which is good to know. And then you just simmer that and then towards the end you can add a couple of big tablespoons of red pesto and this gives you a really rich, delicious broth which you can then drop nice big chunks of maybe straight salmon, yes, nice chunky bits of just salmon popped in or Pollock or Coly, or even pieces of mackerel, and drop those in and just gently cook it, and then just ladle it into bowls, I call it my bistro fish stew and serve it with lashings of garlic bread which you dunk into the stew. Fantastic

J: And it’s a great way of getting the vegetables in as well

L: It is but also if he likes that smoky taste, try smoked mackerel, you buy peppered mackerel fillets which are a lot cheaper, I have to say and probably nutritionally better?

J: Yep definitely, I mean I love smoked mackerel, mixing it with some reduced fat fromage frais, black pepper, lemon juice, mix it all together and serve it on some toast or on a sandwich, and that’s the sort of thing I guess your son will probably love he loves to snack on smoked salmon

H: Great snack on toast

L: Great snack on toast but even you know sardines on toast which is something that I grew up on as a child

H: Sure

L: I had some spicy sardines on toast the other day and all we did was we added a tablespoon of curry powder to the tomato sauce and then put the sardines on the toast and grilled them. Fantastic

J: And actually the advantage with things like the pilchards and sardines, you can eat the bones –

L: Yes

J: As well. Now bones in fish we tend to shy away from, but these are really soft and edible –

H: They’re soft bones, yes

J: You can mash them up and you won’t even notice they’re there, but it means that sardines and pilchards are a very very good source of calcium which we need for strong bones ourself, so for children in particular when they’re bones are growing, it’s a great way to sort of like get calcium into them in addition to obviously dairy products

H: What a win win – all ways round. Helen, good question from Helen, got to move on with these questions, got lots of questions and short amount of time left for them – “tinned fish” - I knew we’d get round to this already “you’ve got tinned salmon, tinned tuna, you’ve got all the others as well. Do they all have omega-3 in them?”

J: All with the exception of canned tuna so your pilchards, sardines, salmon or mackerel, all those things have got the omega-3 in, however there seems to be something in the canning process when you take fresh tuna and can it, you actually lose the omega-3 so fresh – the basic rule is fresh tuna, a good source of the omega-3, canned tuna, not a good source but it still counts towards those two a week

H: Right, that’s our canned – always good to have canned food in isn’t it?

L: Always good and also what I call the modern store cupboard as well, what about your freezer?

H: Sure

L: I mean frozen fish, nutritionally wise is just as good isn’t it?

J: Absolutely, just as good

L: So –

J: Again a win win

H: Let’s go away from the canned fish if we can, back to the fresh fish. Good question that’s come in from Darren here, “if fresh fish is always preferable, where do we get it from? A lot of the fishmongers have all closed down, and assuming we can get fresh fish, what should I be looking for when I go to buy fresh fish?”

L: Well first of all yes a lot of fishmongers have closed down but there are still quite a lot around. Food markets which now are appearing, seem to be appearing all over the country, you will often now find a fishmonger and a barrel there, which is great

H: Absolutely, fantastic

L: Supermarkets, and they seem to be stocking a much wider variety now of sea fish and shellfish. What you should be looking for is like buying a piece of meat, you know you wouldn’t buy a piece of meat that smelt, you know with a fish it should smell of the sea. Have that really fresh smell, it should have what we call a bright eye, how I don’t look in the morning when I wake up, you know, a nice, bright eye, not a sunken eye. As fat as slime, you know they can be a bit slippery can’t they fish? Never pick anything that the slime looks brown or anything like that. It should look fresh, it should say “I’m fresh”-

H: Sure

L: And also when you press the flesh of the fish it should feel nice and springy and firm –

H: It should come back again

L: It should come back again, if it sticks in it means that it’s probably old

J: and it I think don’t forget you can actually freeze fresh fish yourself, so if you get the opportunity you find somewhere that perhaps isn’t in your local area but you tend to go you know once every two or three weeks, you can buy in bulk and then you can actually freeze what you’ve bought

L: You can and then - or the other way of course is to actually make the dish, make your fish cakes, make your fish pie, and freeze it and then you’ve got it to hand –

H: Perfect, and then you’ve got

J: You’ve got ready meals, healthy ready meals

H: Do three lots in one go –

L: Absolutely

H: Easier. Alistair with a question, which is about your recommendations for eating farmed fish, “if you recommend organic fish, what does that say about the other 96% of farmed fish?” Where should we be going on this? Fresh fish, wild caught – line caught, farmed? Just eat fish, basically!

L: Yes I mean the thing is, I mean obviously sea fish is doing everything it can to make it more environmentally friendly which is important, which is why we have a responsibility of finding out you know what other fish we can buy, what time of year it’s best to buy certain fish when it’s in season –

H: I think you mentioned this before about other types of fish, could you just name some other types of fish that we could go and look for that maybe we haven’t tried?

L: Well for instance fish which are basically in our waters, and there’s over 100 different types, but for instance Coly, Pollock, hake – you can get organic cod but it’s incredibly expensive. As far as the oil-rich foods, go for things like mackerel, herrings – what else is there?

J: Sardines

L: Sardines, the list is endless, but there are certain times of year where it’s best to buy certain types of fish

H: Sure

L: And if you want to know this and if you haven’t got a fishmonger near you, if you go onto seafish.org then that will give you lots of information about buying fish. I know that there’s – you can get line caught fish which is great but once again for a lot of people it’s very hard to get hold of –

H: Sure

L: If you can that’s fantastic –

H: If you’re living in a fishing harbour somewhere, probably it’s going to happen isn’t it?

L: Yes but for people who live in cities, and who don’t live near the sea –

H: Sure

L: it’s much harder for them to get hold of that, so what I would say to you is next time you go shopping, don’t you know people tend to get stuck in a rut when buying fish, go for something different, go for something that’s sustainable and is around

H: Ok, final question, we are really out of time, it’s from Peter - Valentine’s day is coming up, his wife loves fish – have you got a lovely fish recipe which he could do for his loved one because she likes seafood? So?

L: Oh blimey there are hundreds. I’m rather fond of seared tuna, and we were talking about this earlier –

H: So quick

L: So quick, nice bit of – nice chunky bit of tuna and I - just pull it through a little bit of lime juiced and some teriyaki sauce and just let it sit there for a bit, and then I’d get a griddle pan really nice and hot and meanwhile back at the range I would make some nice ginger-flavoured, garlic-flavoured noodles, with some sesame oil and loads and loads of coriander and lime zest going through so they’re really limey – and then I’d sear (I saw that) –

H: Too drooly

L: And then put a little bit of olive oil, rub that into the tuna, and then I’d sear it and I like my tuna pink, so you don’t really want to cook fresh tuna all the way through because it goes very very dry, so sear it for, depending on how thick it is, for about 1-2 minutes each side, make sure that when you put it in the griddle pan that you don’t try and lift it off the pan straight away because you need that sort of crust to form on the tuna, and then flip it over and then serve that with your lovely sort of limey sesame, you could put toasted sesame seeds in the noodles –

H: Dash of soy across the top

L: Little dash of soy over the top, nice thick lime wedge on the side

J: And also it’s worth mentioning that fish is a fantastic source of zinc, and zinc is very important for our reproductive system and for fertility, so perfect for Valentines day!

L: Glass of champagne

H: Come on you’re on a winner! Where do we go for more information on the recipes and more to do with seafood, I think you mentioned it once already?

L: You want to go to seafish.org and that will tell you everything that you need to know

H: Ok well that really is all the time we’ve got, thank you very much to Juliet and to you Lesley as well, and thank you very much indeed to you for watching and taking part in the show, and we hope we’ve enthused you to eat a little bit more fish. Bye bye.