H: Host
I: Ian McCulloch

H: …Or look a little bit different. Now one man who can hopefully help you today with that and some more details upon how to actually break into the industry is music legend from Echo and the Bunnymen, lead singer Ian McCulloch whose had 20 years of experience, over 20 years of consecutive hits with Echo and the Bunnymen, and so Ian joins us this afternoon – Ian welcome

I: Hiya

H: Nice to see you, you’re looking well. Tired?

I: Tired at the minute yes

H: You’re working too hard, that’s why. So listen if you want to ask any question at all to Ian what you need to do, there’s a form at the bottom there if you put your name in and the question that you want to ask Ian, maybe you yourself are a music artist or you know a friend who is, or maybe you want to get into management, something like that – ask the question, we’ll try and get through as many as we can this afternoon. Now I want to kick off with you, and I mean obviously you started in ’78 yes?

I: Yes

H: Ok so I’m thinking back then there probably wasn’t this kind of opportunity for you, so how did you get started, what was your story?

I: We looked the part, we sounded the part – we had one song, played it one night in a club in Liverpool. We had – when we formed in ’78, it was just after the Punk thing had happened, so what the Punk thing did was enable loads of people to realise the dream of no matter how crap you were at playing an instrument, if you had one you could stand there and thrash it out. And you know it kind of totally got rid of the myth that you had to be technically proficient. All you had to do was – you had to – I think it’s always good if it looks right, you know? So we had one song cobbled together, no chorus, but it was interesting enough and weird enough, and we had a drum machine which was slightly different as well to attract attention. We played one gig and the word went round Liverpool that there was this weird band, like no other that had been from Liverpool. And then the next song we played we had 5 songs and it just grew from there. And we were obviously totally brilliant and the best band in the world, so that helped!

H: So basically having that kind of little bit of difference because – I suppose it was a different era back then?

I: Yes it was a club in Liverpool called Eric’s which everyone played, I saw the Pistols there, the Runaways, Stranglers in their first three shows, Class played there, Iggy Pop, The Ramones, Talking Heads – it was just everyone. Lots of American bands from the Ceeby Jeebies – which again was another scene from New York, it was kind of – there was a real sense that it was a scene and not just a venue. So that was our kind of lucky break I suppose that – and it’s still to this day the best club I’ve ever been to.

H: Yes?

I: We basically lived there, it was our kind of – it was our own thing –

H: It was your place

I: Yes so if you played to 100 people with 5 songs it felt like you were on your way, you know and nothing was daunting in those days and the fact that there were so many bands come out of different cities and different scenes, all of the people in London, record companies kind of just flocked to those cities and we had the power because it was obvious, you know there were so many things out there, quite diverse stuff as well. So that kind of, it was just luck and timing in a way. Had it been 3 years earlier before the Punk thing and I’d have been 18, wanted to start a band , I think we’d have – not missed the boat, but I don’t think we’d have been –

H: So it’s right time, right place, that kind of thing?

I: Yes

H: And how do you think the industry has changed since then?

I: I think what happened, the Punk thing and whatever happened for the next 3 or 4 years after that, it seemed that the record companies – kind of – they swallowed it all up – and that’s what happens, you know some bands will succumb to the pressure of a record company, we just always told them to sod off, it was like we’re doing what we want to do, but we were till – there was still some kind of pressure but being from Liverpool, you don’t really pay any attention to what anyone else says really

H: Fair play

I: So it was kind of this thing, they grabbed it all and made certain things the things that they knew they could make hits out of like – whether it was the Thompson Twins or the Human League. Groups that started off a lot different –

H: That’s what I was going to say because you had that kind of - you had different genres so you had New Romantics, kind of phase, you had the punk era.

I: Some bands it was like, hang on a year ago you weren’t doing that. A lot of bands go hunting for glory and the mere mention or whiff of cracking America and they crumble and they’ll do whatever they are told. Go with certain producers to give them that lush sound. It kills the life out of things. The good thing about the internet, even though I don’t have a computer. I was thinking about getting one only to make phone calls on.

H: You should they are getting cheaper.

I: Are they? The good thing is it does bypass the record company.

H: This is basically what Pringles Unsung is all about. It is about finding that raw talent and nurturing them and getting the right producers behind them.

I: Again I don’t know if it is raw talent we are looking for. The Liverpool talent is heft. The bands should nurture themselves. I want to do this because I want to be involved in something. I am so negative about things all the time. Things that have happened over the last few months have made me think don’t be critical so much and actually try and like something else.

H: So is this how you got involved in Pringles Unsung?

I: I was asked to do it because they wanted an Icon or something. They phoned up rent-an-icon. I just thought I could maybe find something that I love. Something fresh and inspiring. Not the next Rufus Wainwright but something like that really did my head in.

H: I’m with you, ok. Well we’ve got our first question in Ian –

I: I’d maybe help them not be nurtured or not be produced by the wrong people. A great band is a great band –

H: Of course they are, yes whatever the sound. Alison wants to know “how did you first get involved in this unsung project?” You’ve kind of already covered that but just tell us from the very start, how did you –

I: It was only about a month ago, a friend of mine who knows the people involved phoned me up saying you might enjoy doing it. That was another thing, I kind of want to have fun with it, if everything I hear is a load of crap, so be it, you know, but I want to have a laugh listening –

H: Now if you were to – if we’re going along the X-Factor vibe, because obviously you’re one of the judges –

I: We’re not

H: No I know, totally – we’ll get away from the pop kind of thing, but going on the judges eye, would you be more of a Simon Cowell, the Sharon Osbourne or the Louis Walsh –

I: Whose that divvy with the beard?

H: I don’t know his name, Sharon Osbourne’s friend

I: I don’t know. No I’d be Tony Hatch from New Faces

H: Ok. Just going to be yourself

I: Or Dave Dickens who – I want to be the real deal

H: Cheap as chips!

I: Yes. Or Les Dennis, Les Dennis. I – who knows you know, I just want to be there to hopefully hear the thing that is great and then tell them to do what the hell they want

H: Alright, and what’s the kind of thing you’re looking for personally?

I: Great voice, great lyrics and great songs. Whether it’s a band or some bloke, you know – tapping his fingers on the table. I said in a previous interview today you know if Paul Simon hadn’t have existed until today and he sent in a tape of him singing the Sound of Silence while having a shit, it would be fantastic!

H: Ok, excellent. Now if you want to send in –

I: Maybe not have been so silent

H: Thank you Ian….if you want to send in your questions at all to us, I do apologise for the lateness of today’s – a few problems, but that’s cool. Thanks very much for joining us, thanks for sticking with us. If you want to ask any questions at all there’s a form at the bottom there, just fill that in and put your name there as well and we will try and get through as many as we can this afternoon. So also there’s a question from Dominic, Dominic wants to know when the deadline for Pringles Unsung is. Dominic, if you have a look at the bottom there there’s also a link for the Pringles Unsung website

I: 23rd December though isn’t it?

H: Yes I believe it is – 23rd or 22nd December something like that. Yes so we’ll look into that if you look on the website all the details for everything is actually on there. So what do you think makes a great band?

I: Great singer

H: Yes

I: And great songs and a great guitarist, great drummer and a great bass player. And cool. The cool factor. Just the self-belief and a swagger. And the sound of their own really, they can still be tied to or linked to their kind of, the lineage of great rock music like Elvis, Velvet Underground, Bowie – us, Nirvana. There’s loads of them but kind of –

H: Having their own thing really

I: Yes

H: Ok, excellent

I: Yes and the Beach Boys. They were a great band with great records, doing great songs and great records, not a great band particularly

H: Yes exactly. Simon wants to know “what new bands do you like?”

I: Er –

H: Arctic Monkeys, are you into them?

I: Yes I liked – I mean I didn’t kind of rush out and buy all the stuff, but I thought that was a breath of fresh air

H: Yes?

I: Yes. I like the Kaiser Chiefs even though you couldn’t say they’re new but I liked them because they are what they are

H: Yes

I: And you know it kind of did make you smile, but it’s a clever kind of smile. I like the way he bounces up and down and he can still sing

H: Fratellis?

I: I haven’t really heard them to be honest, I should have done because I’ve been up and down Glasgow often enough

H: Ok yes

I: But for various reasons –

H: You said about the different sound, I mean bands like the Zutons have made it big because they’ve got like a saxophone player in there and it just makes it a little bit different doesn’t it?

I: Yes I mean – I used to love the way Bowie used Sax – yes I like the Zutons, they’re good. I love that Valerie – and the Cole I’m hoping they’re going to come out with some crackers because you know they know how to write songs and they’ve got their own style, I really like. Liverpool is a really great place you know – there’s every band, it’s kind of like a mini competition but they’re all, there’s a fraternity there of kind of musicians. Different from when we started because I used to stare at all of those who were crap as well, I used to like rubbing it in their face, you know they weren’t as good as us

H: Did you find it much more of a competitive market – like is it more of a competitive market now than it was then do you think?

I: I don’t know – never really thought of it - it depends what you kind of, what angle you’re talking about. I mean I always saw it as a competition but not in terms of sales or you know what venues you were playing it was just knowing that the other bands knew you were better, gave you the head start but it’s – I mean I wouldn’t – I think with most bands and now they do seem to enjoy each other’s stuff and I mean they get on and I think that’s nice. I think that’s kind of why I thought yes I want to – I don’t want to be like some grumpy sod on the outside, I kind of – in America we were on tour in June, and Boy Killed Boy supported us and they came in halfway through the tour, I think it was in Texas or – where was the first? But they came in halfway through the tour and we just got on great and it made me think that, you know, I want to be a bit more attached to stuff than, and you know we forged friendships and stuff and that’s always a good thing rather than you know just turning your back on prospective friends, you know?

H: Good man, well done. Another question from James, James wants to know what’s your view on major labels?

I: The – well I think we’re about to sign to one next week so I think they’re great! It doesn’t really matter you know when we started we were on Zoo records, a local indie and we got something in the weekend with three papers I think. So then all the majors came and we signed to one of them. They formed the label “Corova” which a lot of people thought was another indie but it was just one of theirs with an imprint name for us.
All I know is that when you are riding around Liverpool in a taxi and the taxi driver says
“what label are you on?” Warner Bros sounds a lot better than, I don’t know, shithole records. I am all in favour of being allowed to say Daffy Duck records rather than some obscure pokemon.

H: We are just about half way through the show featuring Ian McCulloch lead singer of Echo and the Bunnymen. Basically this is all about Pringles Unsung. We are looking for unsung heroes out there. If you are listening and you are part of a band or you know somebody who is or are a supporter of a big band out there who are trying to make it into the mainstream, then this is exactly for that. If you get on to the website then there is a link at the bottom just down there. We are also after more of your questions we are going to try and get through as many as we can in the next twenty minutes or so. All you need to do is type in your question and type in your name as well and we will ask Ian in a wee second.

I: On the subject of indies and major’s I did some panel thing in Manchester in the city the other week with Manny from Primal Scream, Andy Rourke ex of The Smiths and Danny from Embrace and that was the debate; what is indie what is alternative? I just said it was all a load of crap and they should just call it Undie rock because most of it is so close to shit. What I did say was that all of those things I did like whether it was the Velvets, Bowie, Elvis Presley, Leonard Cohen, Lou Reed solo and Iggy pop they were all RCA I didn’t give a crap whether it was run from some garage in southern Camden or from California it didn’t matter. It was the records and the people strong enough to make the great records.

H: Of course because if you’re in a band or a music artist of some sorts it is all about the passion for the music isn’t it?

I: Yeah. If someone is going to sign you, you hold the cards anyway. They can always drop you but at that early stage is when you set your stall out. You say you have just signed us so you want us and we are going to do what the hell we want. Then they drop you. You have always got to be true to what you want and remember that there was a reason they signed you. The companies, whether it is in music or somewhere else, there are so many people doing all these jobs and you have just got to ignore all of them.

H: And get on with it?
.
I: Yeah you’re the artists and they are just the workers.

H: Kitty wants to know how many entrants do you think you will receive?

I: Loads, they are getting inundated already.

H: Well it’s just over 200 at the moment.

I: I am sure it will go way past 1000 and that is a lot of stuff to listen to. The trick I think is to have a great intro, none of this crapping around. Just a great intro so that whoever is listening to it…

H: To grab someone. It is always the first 20 seconds that grabs someone.

I: Also a great singer with great words that are tuneful. No whining about why it is all going to go wrong, because that is just bull.

H: There is a total of 6 finalists for the Pringles Unsung. They are going to be chosen by yourself, Bacon & Quarmby fantastic music producers themselves they are part of the panel and also you have a couple of other guys from record labels. So after you chose the 6 finalist they get to do a gig in London, which is superb in itself. Then a bit of management advice as well and they get to record a song with Bacon & Quarmby. It is definitely worth getting into, do you think it is worth getting in to?

I: It is but I am going to be there telling them to do what the hell they want. If they are that great, who knows I may take them under my wing try and get them to lose… and produce them and go massive.

H: So you think the whole making it is done by being yourself?

I: I just think this idea, this fixation of making it big, the next big thing….how about the next small thing like the Velvet Underground they were never big. Let’s have the next great small thing that lasts for the rest of time like the Velvets will. You know we never went massive and whatever success we had it was a steady rise and that is the best because you keep writing the songs to sustain you through your life. If anything we have been accused that we couldn’t take the bigness, that we bottled it. We didn’t it was like hang on a sec that doesn’t feel right for us. Taking it at our own pace.

H: That is what I respect about you guys, you have had over 20 years of these hits. You had a bit of a split up in the late eighties but you got back together. You’re biggest single in the UK was “Killing Moon”. That is on the front of Donnie Darko, so it is one of those type of cult songs.

I: On that Donnie Darko thing it was at the front of the film and it made the film magical, but the directors cut; and this shows you how stupid these people are, the director in his own cut used an INXS song at the front and totally took away whatever that mysterious beginning was. He made it just another teen kind of thing. How he could have done that. That shows you what can happen, he used ours because he couldn’t afford the INXS one at the time.

H: But it sounded better. Like you say more magical.

I: It shows you for all these people who work on/with acts and purport to know more than anyone else, even the director himself knackered his own film up by doing that. It kind of made me not like the film after that. It wasn’t just because it was our song it could have been a Doors song or a Velvets song but it just worked and it made the whole thing.

H: You covered a Doors song – People Are Strange. Good song. Question from Morgan. Morgan wants to know what is your current favourite album?

I: I suppose it would have to be Innervisions, Stevie Wonder. He said lying - I haven’t played that for about 3 years. The last great album, the last masterpiece was Rufus Wainwright’s “Want One” and I still play that. Most of the tracks skip I need to get a new copy.

H: So do you have a diversity of listening?

I: Yeah I like singers more than anything. I think Stevie Wonder’s “Yester-you Yester-me Yesterday” is a song that I play all the time and his version of “Blowing in the Wind” those two tracks I’ll play them over and over again for the rest of my life. I’ll never get tired.

H: He just changed the song completely.

I: His voice is unbelievable. Possibly the best voice of all time. Listening to the vocal on “Yester-you Yester-me yesterday” is awe inspiring and he can do anything.

H: Songs like “Lately” as well they just get you. Such a soulful sound.

I: He is proper, he’s the real deal.

H: Julie wants to know “I am in a new band, but we haven’t found the right drummer. Do you know anyone? Is it hard to do a gig with a drum machine like you did in the early days.

I: No it was grand. If anyone wants to be influenced by us then get a drum machine, get a Doctor Rhythm. It is great you learn timing and dynamics. The drum machine stays at the same tempo. The way we used it was to keep it at the same volume so that the instruments had to go up and down you don’t just batter the hell out of them. I would like to do some gigs with a drum machine again, like we used to in the first year we played.

H: How would your drummer feel now if you did that?

I: Ok I suppose.

H: Gives him a rest.

I: Yeah he can watch. I just think it would be good to do that. I would get a drum machine if you can’t get a drummer. Drummers drink all the bevvy usually, our one doesn’t, Simon, he doesn’t. Yes that was what made our sound, the whole spindly wheel guitar thing and the route cords chiming through, and a kind of rhythmic, melodic base going through

H: Now you’ve recently bought out your “Best of” haven’t you in September?

I: Yes

H: Did you re-record the tracks or did you just go for the originals?

I: No. I mean I think we’d record them better now but you know you can’t do that – it’s kind of, it’s a voyage and a journey I’d re-sing pretty much everything but the fans love the way it is you know but I can hear the kind of – the early stuff I cringe at because of the vocals you know, but –

H: You got better!

I: Yes

H: Another question, we’re getting through as many as we can, Maggie wants to know “how are you going to have time to fit in the viewing of all the entrants?” Listening I suppose

I: Webcam – whatever that is. Is this webcam?

H: It’s on webchats.tv yes

I: A video. I mean I’m not going all round the country to look at things but you know it’s more in the listening you know, it’s in the pitch you know, and if you like something that much, or if I do, I’ll go and check them out, and if they’ve got that stage presence then you know they would presumably – if there’s one band out there that have got all the right ingredients, and a lot of it is once they go on stage if they haven’t got stage presence, they haven’t – they’re not a great band

H: Yes that’s true

I: So that is a big test so you know when I whittle down what I like I’ll go – I’d like to check them out. You know if it hits me that strongly I think you know I really want to see these bands

H: You need to get a computer, I mean the internet is so much for music as well

I: And I’ll sign them up and rip them off

H: The internet’s done so much for music, I mean like take Sandy Tom, Sandy Tom did kind of in her basement, did a webcam concert, that’s how she did it, that’s how she got signed you see. So you need to get a computer. You need to sort that out. You’re not too -

I: I can’t use them really

H: Not be able. Well Wenna wants to know “I have friends whose hobbies have become their jobs – they are artists and musicians. Most of them say that when that happened it spoilt their interest in music or art. Do you still listen to music a lot and if so what do you often listen to?”

I: How many questions were in that?

H: There’s about 15 I think….

I: Do I listen to music a lot, no. Because once you’ve got past Loose Women – real deal, Diagnosis Murder or Murder She Wrote – sounds like a pub doesn’t it? Well yes I mean I do, I listen to stuff a lot that I love, you know I’ll play it over and over and wear it out. But again this is what attracted me to this, that I am a lazy sod when it comes to music and over the years I’ve been thinking why don’t I make any effort to listen to stuff, so this was for me a good way of kind of – you know not being so cynical about it all, not being so lazy. And I’m sure they’ll be – even if it’s just one line in one song that will stand out a mile in all this. And I want to – I want to actually get that CD and phone someone up have you heard that thing? Because that’s what I used to do, you know and –

H: So it’s not ignorance, it’s more of a laziness really?

I: Yes but I am an elitist – I probably bury that one, you know the chances are the best thing I’ll go “nah they’re too good”

H: Fair enough

I: I was always like that, you know, any competition – I’d try and hide. But hopefully they’ll be something there that will just –

H: Stick out

I: Even if all that happens from my part is that I phone the band up and say, or the person and say “you are fantastic”. You know that’s as much as I do in a way

H: Another question from Gobuck – cool name – says “the problem with Irish and some UK bands is they feel they need to sound like U2 or Cold Play” – that’s very true actually – “can Ian bring some diversity and how?”

I: Yes I suppose I can. I mean that’s down to – that should be –

H: That’s up to the band

I: Yes it’s like any band who wants to sound like U2 or Cold Play – it’s they’re already wrong, you know. Even if they want to sound like us – we – the Velvet Underground I wanted my rhythm guitar player to sound like Lou Reed but I didn’t want the whole thing to sound like the Velvets so from that Lou Reed rhythm guitar style I’ve developed my own rhythm style and it’s how I write songs now, I write it round the cords and the rhythm. So that’s kind of a different thing

H: Obviously you –

I: Because the Velvet Underground, I wouldn’t – we would never imagined in a million years that we could sound like they did on their first album, its untouchable, but by the same token they’ll be bands who won’t be able to sound like us on “Ocean Rain” or “Crocodiles”. It is down to producers as well; we always produced ourselves or used people like Ian Brodie early on who had never produced anything really, he seemed to know more about music than us. We could deal with him as a friend and argue with him on some stuff. It wasn’t a case of being wheeled in there with some bloke who the record company had got. I think that is always good for bands if they do know someone who is in music who might have a little bit of nouse, without having to be force-fed named producers. That is a good way of developing your own style because most producers will just use the same things that they know from the last record that they did and you start getting bands sounding the same. With Ian Brodie he was just as raw as us, but he had been in a studio. We looked up to him.

H: Well it is a great project that you have got involved in; Pringles Unsung. There is a link at the bottom there, so if you want to click on to that and find out all the details. Also if you look out for special packs of Pringles as well, with this campaign you get the opportunity to win some MP3 players also you get some VIP tickets courtesy of Sony BMG; just see the packs of Pringles for more information. Ian it has been an absolute pleasure to speak to you.

I: An old brown envelope sent to Liverpool.

H: Good man it was good to speak to you. Thank you very much for tuning in this afternoon and make sure you have a look at the link at the bottom and good luck if you are taking part in Pringles Unsung.