Twenty-million households across the country use gas for heating, hot water and cooking, yet we often take it for granted that our boilers, cookers and gas fires are safe. It is only when there is a problem with an appliance that many of us take any notice at all. But, badly installed and poorly maintained gas appliances can be dangerous. So, while the purse strings are tight, many of us may be tempted to get a friend or odd job man to fix the boiler or put in a new gas fire. While they might appear to know what they’re doing or have certain gas ‘qualifications’, you could be putting you and your family at risk by not employing a Gas Safe registered engineer.

It is actually against the law for anyone to do work on gas appliances in Great Britain and Isle of Man unless they are Gas Safe registered. Illegal gas work can lead to a gas leaks, fires, explosions and exposure to carbon monoxide – which can all lead to serious injury or even death.

Our live and interactive Web TV show with presenter George Clarke of Channel 4’s Home Show and Phill Brewster from Gas Safe Register will show you how to find a Gas Safe registered engineer in your local area and how to avoid becoming a victim of illegal gas work. Joining them is Anne Mitchell, who knows first-hand the importance of using a qualified engineer having lost her daughter to carbon monoxide poisoning in 2005 from a gas fire fitted by an illegal gas worker.

There will also be some top tips on maintaining your gas appliances, what you should expect from your landlord if you live in a rented property and a checklist on how to handle an illegal at your door.

George Clarke, Anne Mitchell and Phill Brewster join us live online to discuss illegal gas workers.

For more information visit www.GasSafeRegister.co.uk/illegals

H: Lis Speight, host
G: George Clarke of Channel 4’s Home Show
P: Phill Brewster, Gas Safe Register
A: Anne Mitchell

H: Hello and welcome to the Consumer Advice Show, I’m Lis Speight. Now when it comes to our homes, twenty-million of us are reliant on gas to power our central heating systems, hot water and cookers, so when we’re having gas work done it’s understandable that we want to make sure it’s done properly. But how do you find a gas engineer? Perhaps you use a friend or that odd job person up the road, after all they may hardly seem like cowboys. However when it comes to finding a gas engineer, if they’re not gas safe registered then they’re not safe. Badly installed and poorly maintained gas appliances can be dangerous and could even be fatal. Gas Safe Register has released disturbing research today revealing just how many illegal gas workers are out there putting our families in danger and explains what they’re doing to fight the problem. Well joining me today to discuss this is television property presenter and architect George Clarke, welcome along George, Phill Brewster from the Gas Safe Register, welcome Phill, nice to see you today and also Anne Mitchell who knows what it’s like to experience the very worst kind of loss through illegal gas installation. Anne thanks very much for coming in. Nice to see you today. Now remember we are live so if you want to get your questions in to George, Phil or Anne, or if you have any comments at all, then just use the box on your screen, press submit, it will come through to us here in the studio and we’ll try to get through as many as we can during the course of the show. But before we take your questions let’s talk a little bit about why we’re hear today. Phill talk us through this campaign.

P: There are 7500 hard core illegal gas workers that we would call them, they’re not registered, they’re not qualified, they’re not competent to work in our homes, but they are, and we equate that to be around a quarter of a million gas jobs a year – be it installations, service or maintenance in our homes. Now that’s frightening. So we need to really let the public know and we need to do certain checks to make sure the person coming in your house is the right Gas Safe Person

H: Ok well we’ll get onto those checks a little bit later but you’ve got an advert coming out as well as part of the campaign. Tell us a little bit about that

P: Yes next week. Obviously we want to highlight to the general public to use the right people, to use qualified and competent gas safe engineers, and next week there’ll be a national campaign with an advert on TV that will hopefully get the message across and highlight that to all of us and friends and family

H: Ok now we’ll be talking to Anne a little bit later on who sadly lost her daughter because of faulty gas fitting, but let’s talk to Phil a little bit more about this. Times are hard at the moment, we’ve got the credit crunch going on, not everyone wants to sort of pay out money for a properly qualified engineer so you might just sort of ask the man up the road or someone that you know – why isn’t this ok and how do you sort of check that you’ve got the right person?

P: What you need to do is – getting a cheap job done can cut corners, and using a cowboy that might charge you less but you’re risking yourself and your family and your friends’ lives, and why go down that avenue? What you need to do is make sure that the people you use are safe, are correct and are registered with us. It’s very easy, via our website, picking up the phone and calling our freephone number, it’s so easy to prevent a catastrophe happening, which is what’s happened with Anne. Don’t let it happen to you, always double check, or give us a call or check on our website to find a registered engineer

H: Ok and if you have a bad gas fitter or someone who isn’t qualified, it’s not the same as having a bad carpenter, they do a bad job, it actually could cost you your life couldn’t it?

P: It could do. And what we want people to do is report people to us and w’ell investigate because we want to get as much evidence as we can so we can prosecute these people. Gas Safe doesn’t do that, but we work together with the prosecution authorities to get the evidence to take these people so they’re not carrying out working in our homes

H: Ok well thanks for that for the moment Phill, and we’ll move onto George – you’ve obviously done a lot of homes up in your time

G: One or two

H: You must have come across a few cowboys in your time as well – how do you spot an illegal worker?

G: It’s so tricky, you know these guys – you know the term “cowboy builders” so well, they’re not turning up with a Stetson and boots –

H: No

G: And you know gun slingers, it doesn’t work like that. And actually these guys are quite clever you know they’re very good at selling themselves to people and convincing someone that they should – that they’re employed for their services. And it’s really, really hard at first and you can get sucked in, and a lot of people do get sucked in

H: Especially when you’re on a budget as well

G: Especially when you’re on a budget because let’s face it, if we’re all honest, we always forget at certain times about certain checks in our home

H: Yes

G: And everybody says check your boiler every single year and you might let it slip by a month or two, some people might let it slip by two or three years and not do it every year, and I think it’s really important for everybody to understand the risks that they are taking by not doing those checks. And as you said it’s not like a carpet fitter, it’s not like someone’s fitted a loose floorboard and you’re a bit annoyed about it – this is gas.

H: Yes

G: You know, gas is lethal, it’s great, it’s convenient for home and everything but if it’s not done in a safe and efficient way it is lethal, and to spot these guys the most important thing really is the Gas Safe RegisterID card

H: Right ok and what do they look like?

G: Well you’ve got one haven’t you?

P: I’ve got one

G: I haven’t got one because I’m not an engineer, but it’s a fantastic card, very clear about who the person is, and it’s got their license number it’s got their name – everything on there

H: And photo as well

G: And their photo. It’s got absolutely everything. Now what protects you against any kind of fake or forgery about this, because obviously someone could stick that on a colour photocopier, go to a laminate shop and steal it, and then go like that to you – I am Gas Safe Registered

H: Yes

G: Straight away you should take that number and that information, go online to the website, or the 0800 freephone number, call up and request that information that they are official and they are registered on the Gas Safe Register. On the back just as importantly there’s a few items here, it says Combi Boiler, Cooker, fire – all the appliances that affect gas in your house. Now someone whose on the register might not be qualified to do all of those things

H: Oh that’s interesting

G: So you might have a fire fitted but that person might only be allowed to do combi boilers and meters and pipe work

H: Right so that’s what they’ve been trained to do

G: They’ve been trained to do that, because all these guys are very highly qualified and very good at their jobs, might be specialists in certain fields of gas appliance work

H: Right

G: So this is very clear about who they are, what they can do and whether they are on the register. But don’t just take the card at face value

H: No

G: Get online or pick, up that phone and treble check

H: But we’re all a bit embarrassed, we British, aren’t we, about sort of asking for people’s ID cards. When they’re at the door it’s a bit sort of embarrassing because you just think oh I’m going to be a bit embarrassed and they’re going to be a bit embarrassed – should we be?

G: Do you know I think there needs to be a huge culture change for that. A massive culture change. I think you know if someone turns up and says oh yes I’m registered with this, I’m registered with that – don’t take it at face value and I don’t think you’ve got any problem to say can I see your card, can I see who you are, and do you mind if I just take two minutes out to do a quick check. What’s wrong with that?

H: Yes

G: I mean it’s worth your life, or your children’s life

H: Exactly

P: Gas engineers out there are professional people – we wouldn’t let a policeman in our house without checking his ID card. This person’s going to work on gas that’s safe for 121,000 engineers that we’ve got on our register

H: Right

P: But you’d need to check, as George just said, the most important thing is to check that they can do the work on the back of the work, that’s vital

H: Right

P: If it’s not listed they cannot work on that appliance

H: Right ok. That’s good advice there. But people are using a lot of sort of foreign workers these days, a lot of people are coming in to work in Britain because of the EU rules and what have you – are the majority of these people signing up to the register Phill?

P: The same rules apply. I mean there’s been widening of the EU legislation and border crossing and working abroad, but whoever comes in from whatever part of Europe or any part of the world, they still have to comply with UK legislation, they still have to take the same competence and qualification assessments that our 121,000 engineers do every 5 years to prove their competence

H: Right

P: It’s no different for any foreign worker coming in

H: Ok, good advice there. We’ve had some of your questions come in actually, we’ve got one from Helen on the subject of boilers actually which George was just talking about. She said “I’ve got a boiler and I moved into my house 3 or 4 years ago. I haven’t had it checked yet. Should I be worried?”

G: Yes

H: Right

P: Definitely

G: It’s as simple as that, you should be because if you’ve been in that house for two or three years, you don’t know whose worked on it before, when was it last serviced. I mean someone might have left the service book behind and maybe it hasn’t been updated. You’ve literally got to start from scratch

H: Right

G: And say I moved into this house and say I want to check everything out. And look, I know it’s a credit crunch and financially it’s a difficult time for so many people, but you don’t want to compromise on the most safe and important things in your home. So by going onto the register, getting someone round whose qualified and on that register, check – a few hundred pounds, or whatever it might cost to do it is worth every single penny

P: Badly installed – it’s not just badly installed gas appliances, it’s badly maintained –

H: Right

P: That can kill so it’s just important that the person installs it and then you have it maintained. You wouldn’t not service your car for 5 years

H: No exactly

P: So it’s the same thing. People often have their boiler serviced but forget about the cooker or the fire in their home – it’s just as important so always get the person, gas safe engineer to come and check all your gas appliances annually

G: I know it’s one of those things and today everyone’s kind of told they have to remember this and they have to remember that, and you’ve got to remember this and you’ve got to remember that –

H: There’s lots to do when you own a house isn’t there –

G: You know it’s a – everyone’s busy and it’s easy to forget those things, but when it comes to gas just don’t compromise at all and make sure you’ve done it the right way. And whatever you need to spend, save up the pennies and spend it

H: Spend it

G: In fact you should budget for it every year

H: Yes

G: Just as you budget for your food and you budget for your council tax –

H: And your home insurance and all these things

G: Your home insurance and your car tax and your car servicing, I think you should say right every year I’m putting a few hundred pounds away to get those things checked out

H: Yes. We’re just maybe not used to it are we in the same way, but we’ve really got to be haven’t we?

G: Well one of the problems is it’s not – it’s not legislation

H: Right yes

G: You know we have to get our car MOT’d and serviced every year to get insurance, it’s not legislation for us to have to do that, we’re not being forced to do it by the government, but I think you’ve got a duty of care to yourself and your family to be aware of those things, and that’s really what we’re trying to do today, it’s not kind of forcing it down your throat

H: Yes

G: But it’s saying –

H: Be careful

G: Please, please, please for your own safety, for you and your family, be sensible with this, and be aware of the steps that you have to take to make sure these guys can help you

H: Yes. Moving on to family safety, talking to Anne now, you’ve just got an awful, sad story. Just tell us a little bit about what happened to your family

A: Well I moved into a property that needed a new central heating system, radiators, boiler, fire. The fitter came along, had a look, told me the fire to get, the type of fire, and I bought a brand new fire. He turned up in his van with his card, under the Corgi registered logo that I had phoned, because I wanted a Corgi registered, as a professional

H: Yes

A: Because I didn’t want to take any chances

H: You wanted to do the right thing

A: And it turned out that he’d fitted the fire illegally, he wasn’t registered to fit fires

H: Right

A: And in March 2005 I came home from work to find my daughter dead and my dog dead

H: Oh that’s awful isn’t it?

A: As a result of carbon monoxide

H: And how old was your daughter?

A: She was 14 ½

H: Alex?

A: Yes

H: Just awful, it’s just your worst nightmare isn’t it, it really is

A: It is

H: It’s absolutely awful

G: When you think about the way that you’ve approached everything, it’s the way that most people would in fairness

H: Yes you did your best

A: Because I didn’t know there were three parts to that register

H: Most people don’t

A: I didn’t know there were different parts

G: And also, we were talking about this before actually, Corgi does still exist, it is still an approved body out there and in effect the Gas approved side, it’s something – it’s like an additional check that you really have to make, so don’t just be fooled by the Corgi card

H: Yes

G: You’ve got to go down this route to make sure these guys are 100% and qualified to do what they’re absolutely going to do in your house

P: The only body in Great Britain that runs a registration scheme is Gas Safe Register

H: Right

P: It took over the registration scheme from Corgi

H: Ok

P: On the 1^st April so there’s still that confusion out there, but it’s really getting over to everybody, consumers, to ask to check that they are Gas Safe

H: Yes. So it was carbon monoxide –

A: Carbon monoxide yes

H: That actually killed your daughter wasn’t it? And it’s very difficult to know that that’s there isn’t it?

A: Well there were no side effects, there had been no – if there had been a leak that I was aware of, like people get headaches, they feel nauseous, they fall asleep, there was none of that

H: No

A: Because when she came home from school she was upstairs, the heating was on, the fire was off, she had to be warm upstairs

H: Yes

A: So I wasn’t feeling any effects either

H: Yes. It’s really scary isn’t it?

A: You know so –

H: Really scary. But carbon monoxide poisoning is actually quite a big problem isn’t it Phill? Just explain to us a little bit about how people should look out for it? What can you do to try and avoid this, apart from getting your things fitted properly in the first place?

P: Well we analysed over a 9 month period, investigations we’ve looked at on illegal gas work, and we looked at that one in ten – over 1 in 10, nearly 12% of the jobs we go out to consumer homes and invite us to check on the illegal work that’s carried out, we’ve had to cut off there and then because a third were down to leakage of gas and nearly half, 50% was down to faults on combustion and fluing which could lead to carbon monoxide exposure

H: Right

P: For the people living there. It’s shocking really, so the basic things to do is if you’re in any doubt on your appliance or safety, always turn it off, call the emergency service people, get a Gas Safe Registered business in. If you don’t know anybody get on our website, phone us up and we can give you within a radius, we can give you as many contact details as possible for someone to do that safety check

H: Yes

P: Even in rented accommodation it’s a requirement, landlords must have their appliances checked so any student accommodation or private rented, the landlord, every year, must get all the gas appliances checked for safety, and a certificate can be given, or the tenant should ask for that certificate

H: Yes

P: Within a month of the work being done

H: Yes we have had a question in on that actually, Natalie says “my daughter is at university in her second year and has moved into a new property which isn’t managed by the university” – which is exactly what I did, that’s what everyone does in their second year don’t they, they go out and live in some dodgy place – “so whose responsibility is it to ensure that she is Gas Safe? Is this something I can contact her landlord about?” So Phil what would you advise?

P: Definitely, go to the landlord and ask verbally, when was the check done. Can you give me a copy of the last check, and it must be within every 12 months of that first check that’s carried out. If there are any problems or the landlord’s not being helpful, contact Gas Safe Registerand we’ll come out and we’ll investigate that job and we’ll get the landlord involved. It’s vital that every 12 months landlord property is always checked

H: Yes. Ok. And don’t be embarrassed to ask for it

P: No

H: Because it’s just one of those things isn’t it?

P: It’s alright, it’s under law, it’s legislation

H: Exactly. And if your kids don’t do it then make sure that you ask for it. And if you own your own home and you’re sort of worried about carbon monoxide, apart from getting your things checked out, you can buy detectors can’t you George for that sort of thing?

G: Yes I mean you see them a lot in houses really, that there’s a CO2 carbon monoxide detector installed somewhere, fairly close to the boiler. I’ve seen, you can find them anywhere in main rooms, but as soon as those levels begin to rise, if it detects any leak in the system just like your smoke alarm, that goes off, you know there’s a problem, shut everything down, get everyone out of the house and get it checked properly

P: The first line of defence is always to get it installed and maintained by a Gas Safe engineer. The second line we’d always recommend fit a carbon monoxide detector

H: Right

G: And they’re just a few pounds

P: £15 or less from major do-it-yourself stores. Make sure it’s British Standard kite marked, it’s approved

H: Yes

P: But there are lots of makes and models on the market, yes it could prevent a tragedy

G: And what we do in a lot of our houses now is we connect those up to the mains electric supply rather –

H: Oh right yes

G: Than put a battery in because it’s a classic thing, you forget to change the battery after a while

H: And it’s beeping and you think oh

G: It’s beeping

H: I’ll just take the battery out, we’ve all done it haven’t we?

G: I’ve seen people – even on smoke alarms to be honest when they beep they go oh do you know what, I’ll just take it off. And I go what –

H: Exactly

G: That’s the worst thing you’d ever possibly do. So we do – in our new properties, in our new refurbishment properties, we always connect them up to the mains, so you’ve got no choice to turn nothing off or have the battery run out

H: Yes. Ok. Moving on to more of your questions and Mark said “is it in order for a Gas Safe Registered company or engineer to check and certify the work of another company or fitter who is not registered after the completion of gas pipe works or gas appliance installation? Short of restoring the gas supply by turning on the tap?”

P: No. If any part of the gas installation, the pipe work, the appliance, fluing ventilation can only be installed, fitted and maintained by a Gas Safe Engineer. So you can’t employ another tradesman to put it all on and employ a Gas Safe Engineer to commission it – no, they’re both illegal. You’re legitimising illegal work

H: Right

P: So the health and safety executive who are the enforcement body for gas regulations, they would take action against the illegal gas worker and a person whose knowingly –

H: Oh right

P:Signing off that work

H: Ok

P: Yes

H: So you don’t want to go down that route really

P: No

H: Just get on the register and look for someone locally near you

P: Yes

G: Yes I mean being honest about the way the industry’s worked for a long time, from – I went into the business when I was 16 and worked on building sites, and there’d always be someone where they’d say oh we’ll get him in because he’s cheap

H: Yes

G: and then we’ll get that bloke to sign it off later

H: It goes on doesn’t it?

G: It happens – it does happen – I mean we’ve got to be honest about that, it happens and I’ve see it on building sites even today. It’s got to stop

H: Yes

G: I mean it really has to stop, you can’t compromise on safety any more

H: Yes but we’re getting there aren’t we?

G: We are, I think with all of these steps and this register which is absolutely fantastic, I think it’s like a breath of fresh air, literally, to the industry

H: Yes

G: And I think it gives everybody at home peace of mind, it’s one-stop shop if you like for all of the approvals and everything that you need, all the advice that you need to do a safe job in your home

H: Ok well we’re nearly running out of time actually, we’ve just got one last question in from Richard, he said “what should I be looking for in a dodgy gas worker? Are there any tell-tale signs?” That funny hat or something!

P: Well part of the research identified that – the types of businesses tend to be sole traders, or small companies, less than four people being employed. And they tend to advertise in either local papers, and now online.

H: Oh right

P: So again online can get to a much wider audience so again it comes back to the basics of once you’ve done your research, or that person comes knocking on your door to give you a quotation, if they haven’t got that or they’re making excuses, they’ve left it at another job, don’t let them in, get their details and pass it onto us and we can come out and investigate on your behalf

G: I think even the point is, if you call someone, whether it’s Yellow Pages or whatever it is and you say can you come and do my boiler for me, and the guy says yes I’ll come round on Friday, I think at that point you should say can I have your Gas Safe number please

H: Yes, yes. Then you’ve got time to check it out

G: Then you’ve got that and you haven’t got that pressure of someone on your front door and that ooh shall I let them in, shall I not let them in. I think get all that information beforehand. If they’re dodgy, they won’t give you it

H: Yes

G: Or they’ll make a number up and then you make that call to the Gas Safe Register–

H: And you’ve got them haven’t you

G: And you’ve got them and you go somewhere else. You haven’t got that pressure imposed on yourself

H: Yes so the top 5 tips then if you’re thinking of having gas work done on your house – top 5 tips, George?

G: Well I think, I think the first thing is always use someone whose on the Gas Safe Register, quite obviously. Secondly make sure that they’ve got their ID card and that you’ve done proper checks on those people to make sure that they’re qualified to do the actual work you want them to do

H: yes

G: If it’s just your cooker or it’s just your boiler, check that they can actually do that. And I think thirdly if anyone is illegitimate or illegal and not on the register it’s great if you get in touch with the register to report them, because the most important thing is that we get rid of these guys

H: Yes

G: They’ll always be around, we’ve got to work really really hard to try and get rid of them, I think after that really any doubts that you’ve got, go to the website or pick up that freephone number and just give them a call. But whatever you do do not do any dodgy work on your gas works

H: Ok. Final thought from you Anne before we go – what sort of message would you like to send to people out there really?

A: Well just keep checking the card, double check the card, get yourself a carbon monoxide detector because the problems don’t arise always straight after the work has been done. Mine took 12 weeks

H: Really? Goodness

A: And it is your second line of defence but it may be your life saver

H: Yes

A: Always check it out. Call Gas Safe

G: And one thing I keep going on about – sorry to interrupt is I do think we have to have a mindset change that this becomes a regular thing that we do, just like MOTing your car and servicing your car, I think it needs to be a self-imposed –

H: Put it in your diary

G: Thing that you do. Put it in your diary, do it and check it every single year and then you can sleep at night

H: Ok

P: Just the last thing, if you suspect that you’ve had work or you’ve carried out by an illegal gas worker then please contact us and we’ll come and investigate, because it’s getting the evidence against these guys that’s a difficult thing, and we need customers to call us for us to investigate, to get that evidence so we can take it further and take these people off the market, or out the market

G: And one amazing thing that we haven’t mentioned, we completely forgot actually is that if you’ve had work done recently that you’re worried about, get Gas Safe round, they’ll do a free inspection and assessment of that work. I mean that’s priceless

P: If you’ve had recent installation work – a new cooker, boiler, fire, then you can again contact us on our freephone number, on our website to nominate your property for a free safety check. One of our inspectors round the country, we can organise that to come in. We can’t guarantee to get round everybody,

H: But you’ll do your best

P: but nominate and we’ll contact you and we can do a free safety check

G: I’m going straight on there

H: Well look we’ve got to leave it there, George, Phill and Anne thanks so much for coming in and Anne thanks for sharing your story, it’s just awful, awful but hopefully people will learn from that. So thanks very much for joining us today and thanks to you at home as well for sending in your questions. If you want any more advice and information you can go to the website which is www.GasSafeRegister.co.uk/illegals. Well thanks very much for watching, we’ll see you next time. Bye bye.

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