H: Host, Lis Speight
A: Andrew Litchfield, Head of Community and Environmental affairs
M: Michelle Leighton, Community and Environmental Affairs manager

H: Hello and welcome to the Parenting Show, I’m Lis Speight. Now, as the clocks go back each October millions of children up and down the country are making their journeys to and from school in much darker conditions, and with that in mind the Nationwide launched the National Cat’s Eyes for Kids campaign in which all primary school age children are given free reflectors to help make them look a little bit more visible in the gloom of the British winter, and I’m pleased to say that to talk about the campaign and also the whole issue of road safety for children, I’m pleased to say that we’re joined from the Nationwide by Andrew Litchfield who is head of community and environmental affairs, and also Michelle Leighton who is community and environmental affairs manager. Welcome along to both of you, thanks very much for coming in

A: Thank you

H: It’s great to see you. They’ve bought some reflectors along so we’ll be having a look at those a little bit later, but before we get cracking, just like to say that we are live, this is a live show and we’re also interactive so if you want to get involved then please do, if you want to ask a question to either Michelle or Andrew then all you have to do is type your name and your question in the box that’s on the screen, press submit, it’ll come through to us in the studio and we’ll try to answer as many of your questions as we can. But first of all let’s talk a little bit more about the campaign. When was it launched and what is it exactly? Andrew, can you tell us?

A: Right, the scheme was launched right back in 2001, and was really triggered by a big government initiative at that point, they were looking at overall casualty rates, not specifically at children but right across the piece

H: Right

A: And something really quite alarming emerged and that was that children of primary school age were hugely vulnerable

H: Right

A: And common sense tells you that perhaps pre-school children are normally in a buggy on their way to pre-school or holding hands with mum –

H: Or much more closely supervised, yes

A: Absolutely. But then quite rightly when children get to primary school age, rightly they want more independence

H: Yes

A: And they should learn through that independence, but it does make them more vulnerable because they’re not necessarily so well supervised. So we did a lot of consultation with the road safety professionals, people like the police, like road safety officers, and the department for transport, and tried to probe a little bit more into this issue and how we might be able to help, and it very quickly emerged that visibility was a particular issue and obviously at this time of year –

H: That’s right

A: During the Autumn –

H: The Autumn and the winter it gets so dark –

A: In the winter it’s even worse

H: It’s suddenly come upon us, doesn’t it, the dark?

A: It does, absolutely

H: It seems to come out of nowhere

A: Clearly the clock change accelerates that as well

H: Yes

A: And brings that to mind. So we, having consulted with the experts we started to look around for a bit of a solution, and found the answer in Scandinavia

H: Oh right. They’re always first with these things aren’t they -

A: They’re awfully clever aren’t they?

H: The Scandinavians. We’re always following in their wake

A: But they have, you know they have the advantage if you like of the experience of much longer, much darker –

H: That’s right, yes

A: Nights, and clearly they’re a lot further north than us, much more rural, dark streets, dark roads and so on. And their solution to this was the use of reflectors

H: Right

A: And actually if you go across to Scandinavia now you will see not only children but adults

H: Adults wearing them as well

A: All wearing reflectors

H: And they really work actually don’t they?

A: Oh it’s extraordinary

H: They really pick them up

A: Absolutely

H: Michelle you’ve actually got some of the reflectors here, explain how it works, and all children are given one of these are they?

M: Absolutely – this is an example of one of the Cat’s Eyes for Kids that has gone out, and this is a snowflake shape but they come in all shapes and sizes, snowflakes, dinosaurs, cats, footballs –

H: Footballs. Different colours as well

M: Yes different colours and it’s –

H: Age groups etc

M: You know, different children, different age groups and to make them fun and interactive for children that they’ll want to wear them basically

H: And where do they wear them then, what’s the idea?

M: Well they can attach it through this little hook here, onto their school bag or onto their coat, and if they want to change it around they can do, and by just dangling around like that, if a headlight catches that, that will – that’s where it can be seen from

H: But they’re very very sparkly, that would make a nice Christmas tree decoration wouldn’t it?

M: It would actually, it would. Wouldn’t save your life in your house but it would

H: Don’t put them on your Christmas trees folks, wear them on your coat!

M: But basically a car driving along a dark road, if a low beam headlight catches this, from about 150m away it will pick it up

H: Oh right

M: And it’s only 30 metres if a child’s not wearing anything, so –

H: That’s a heck of a difference then actually isn’t it?

M: Yes, so –

H: So has it actually made a difference this campaign, it’s been running for 6 years now, do you think it’s actually made a difference?

A: Yes it has, absolutely, I mean the overall statistics if you look at the figures from the start of the campaign which was 2001 to now, in that period of time, child pedestrian casualties and deaths have been reduced by 51%

H: That’s incredible

A: Which is extraordinary

H: Now a lot of it must be down –

A: Now we’re not – no we’re not claiming that all of that is down to the Cat’s Eyes for Kids scheme, obviously a lot of people are working very hard on government initiatives, schools obviously are doing their own road safety initiatives, local road safety officers and so on, so by no means are we claiming the credit for all of that, but what we’d like to think is that what we’re doing is adding another dimension –

H: That’s right

A: To the overall effort, and as Michelle said, you know something which the children can relate to, engage with and enjoy, and that’s a key point, it really is. Give a child something boring and they will reject is and you’ve lost the battle

H: Well these are actually quite popular aren’t they?

A: They’re fun, you know –

H: Because a little bird tells me that children are actually trading with these in the playground

A: Oh yes, these are great playground swaps now, you know –

H: They’re really very trendy and I particularly like the dinosaur one, I think that’s my favourite, because I can see you like the snowflake don’t you?

M: I do, I do

A: But it’s a serious point, that you know if it’s something the children will enjoy, they’ll use it and that’s half the battle, it really is

H: Yes. And are they quite long-lasting as well these, they can take being chucked about –

A: Oh they’re – absolutely, hugely durable, they’re actually made to exactly the same standard of quality and durability as the reflective panels you see on the back of cars, trucks, lorries –

H: Oh right, so they’ll take a bit of bashing about

A: They’re made to sort of automotive standard, they’re completely weather proof, burn proof, drop-proof, anything –

H: And just that flash in the headlights might just be enough to

A: Absolutely

H: To alert a driver. Because it – it’s that sort of dusky period which actually it’s quite hard to see isn’t it when you’re driving?

A: Yes, yes

M: Yes

H: Particularly when it’s wet, you know what our winters are like, they’re terrible aren’t they?

A: Yes

H: Is there a drive as well to get kids to wear better clothing because if you’re wearing a dark coat and one of these ok you’re more easily seen, but there is more reflective clothing on the market these days isn’t there?

M: Absolutely and it doesn’t just have to be one of these reflectors that children can wear. If your child for example now needs a new coat, if you go to the shops most of them have got some kind of reflective element –

H: Yes

M: In the sleeves, it’s common sense now really to get those, to purchase those clothing for your children – trainers as well –

H: Oh that’s true

M: Got a lot of reflective elements in them too. There’s other things you can buy as well, tabards with reflective strip across the middle, armbands and so forth, and it’s just really educating ourselves really to think about it, it is darker and it’s wet some days, and a bit of fog as well, you know we’ve just got to think about it

H: Yes and also a lot of it’s down to drivers as well I think, because it’s all very well telling parents to keep your kids safe on the roads, but I think drivers as well have got to take the initiative as well, there’s a lot more 20 mile per hour zones around schools now – is that something that you think might roll out a bit more?

A: I’m sure it will. I think – again I don’t have statistics on this one, but I think the evidence is clear that the 20 mile an hour zones in residential zones, things really have, really have worked and you know it’s coming at the problem from another angle and really the more different angles of attack to this whole issue, the whole issue of road safety for children, the better frankly

H: Yes. Because drivers, I mean there’s so much more traffic on the roads these days than when we used to walk to school and we’re trying to get children to walk to school and not take the car all the time, and is it actually safe to walk and cycle actually? A lot of children cycle – is it actually safe to walk and cycle to school these days?

A: I think it is, and it’s important obviously from the health perspective –

H: Yes

A: That children do walk and cycle, but absolutely paramount is that they’re given the appropriate information, the appropriate training, whether that’s about just walking ot school, you know what is the right sort of behaviour – as Michelle was saying, what is the right sort of clothing, and exactly the same with cycling, the good old cycling proficiency test, you know it’s absolutely paramount that kids are equipped for – as you’ve just said for a much more hostile traffic environment

H: That’s right. And people go so fast these days, it makes my blood boil. Anyway, moving on to some of your questions actually, we’ve had quite a few coming in, and Charlie wants to know, he doesn’t say where he’s from – ‘are there any plans to have reflectors to fit on bikes like we had in the 1980s’ – he’s got children and he’s thinking about the things you used to get in cereal packets and what have you. Could you put one of these on your bike?

A: Not in their existing form here

H: No

A: Because I think there’s a risk obviously –

H: Tangled in your spokes!

A: Yes exactly, but it is still possible to buy these spoke reflectors –

H: Right

A: I would guess from bike shops and so on. But having said that, you know if you wear one of these on your coat, on the bike, as long as it’s not going to tangle up, absolutely fine

H: Yes, on your backpack or something, as long as you make sure it’s not dangling

A: But I would still, as Michelle said, you know you look at some tabards probably on a bike, or armbands or what have you

M: Or even lights on some bikes as well –

H: Well exactly, even if it’s just dusk, a little bit dusky. It’s amazing how many people you see on bikes that haven’t got lights on. But even just a simple fact of not wearing a black coat, it’s incredible what a difference it makes, particularly if you’re driving down a country lane and you come across someone in a black coat, you just don’t see them do you?

M: No you don’t

H: And kids particularly they just dart in and out don’t they?

A: Well if you go back some years and the slogan was ‘wear something white at night’

H: Yes

A: And that still stands, ok it’s perhaps not quite as effective as reflective material and so on

H: No

A: But it’s a heck of a lot better than black

H: And materials have come on so much more now from when we were – well when I was at school. They’re trendy now, and there’s a lot of silver around and that sort of thing

M: Yes

H: And kids like wearing those sorts of colours, well particularly girls don’t they. Moving onto some more questions actually Sean has written in from Wembley and he wants to know ‘it’s been a while since I walked to school’ – yes I know the feeling, ‘but I think I need to get some of these for my cycling through the city’ – ah you see it’s not just for kids is it, so he’s thinking that he might be able to get one for going to work or what have you. Can you actually get them if you’re not a school child? Have you got to nick one off your kids?

A: Yes I mean if your caller would like to drop us an email –

H: Go to the website maybe

A: Go to the website

H: nationwide.co.uk

A: Cat’s eyes and we’ll sort him out

H: Lovely, so there you are. Hope that helps you. Had another question in from Anne and she wants to know ‘my daughter is just going to high school and I think she’s old enough to walk by herself, but she refuses to wear reflectors. How can I make them seem cool?’ It’s a big ask isn’t it?

A: Well I think we do have quite a cool reflector that is a mobile phone

H: Oh right

A: Now if that’s grown-up enough for her, again if she would like to drop us a note through the website, we’ll see if we can help

H: There we are Anna, I hope that helps you, a mobile phone reflector. And also maybe try some of the reflective clothing as well

A: Absolutely

H: Because – I mean even if it’s just a shiny scarf or something isn’t it to try and make you stand out a little bit more, rather than just wearing a black coat. Ok, do you think that Britain is any worse than other countries, I mean we’ve already talked about Scandinavia being up there with the reflection, do you think Britain is worse, I mean particularly in the north it’s very dark isn’t it in the winter? Are we worse than maybe some of the southern European countries on road safety?

A: Right – we talked earlier on about this overall survey of child road safety across Europe, and that as I said was one of the triggers that made us actually look at doing this scheme because that point, Britain sadly was pretty much at the bottom of the league in terms of European casualty rates, you know per 100,000 population for children. That’s really what actually sparked off our interest in starting this scheme to try and readdress that balance, so at that point back in 2001, yes we had a pretty poor record. That situation I’m delighted to say, you know has now started to improve

H: Half as many in six years, that’s incredible actually isn’t it?

A: Which you know we’re delighted to say, that’s fantastic, but there’s still a heck of a long way to go, you know –

H: One child dead is too many isn’t it?

A: It is, absolutely and you know the horrific statistic is, the latest stats which were for 2006, show that 959 children, child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured on Britain’s roads and –

H: Goodness that’s a heck of a lot –

A: That’s ghastly.

H: Isn’t it?

A: Absolutely ghastly, so you know we have got to continue with the campaign, we’ve got to enlist the help of the media, to put that message across, and to work with and in conjunction with the road safety professionals, the police, ambulance, whoever it is, you know anybody that actually has an impact upon promoting that road safety message for children

H: Yes and as you say we’re trying to get children to cycle to school, to walk to school but you’ve got to be safe as well

A: For health reasons yes, yes absolutely

H: Ok. Now we’ve just got time for one last question, I think actually – Joan has written in and she wants to know ‘I’m worried that my grandchildren aren’t safe on the roads. Can you tell me how these reflectors work?’ We’ve sort of covered that haven’t we but if you can just go over it again, just explain how much more easily you are likely to be seen with these

A: Sure

H: You had some figures for us didn’t you Michelle?

A: Yes – sorry

M: Well basically by wearing one of these and the way that they clip on means that they dangle so a car going along a road with dipped headlights will pick that up from at least 150 metres away, maybe up to 200 metres and the headlight on it will just sparkle it off, and you can already see it sparkling in the light in the studio, so they are very very effective, and potentially could save your life so –

H: And if you’re at primary school you should have got one of these free at some point during your school days

M: Absolutely the new intake children are just getting them now, but if you did get one in the last few years then by all means please get them back out and wear them again

H: Yes, dig them out of your drawer and –

M: Absolutely

H: And get them on as the nights draw in. Ok well that’s about all we’ve got time for actually, so Michelle and Andrew thanks very much for coming in and explaining this to us, and if you’d like any more information, if you’d like some curriculum linked fact sheets if you’re a school teacher and you’re watching or if you think your school has missed out on getting these reflectors, or if you’d just like to get some more, if your mum’s nicked your one and you want some more then all you have to do is go to the website which is nationwide.co.uk, you’ll follow the links through there to the Cat’s Eyes for Kids campaign, and you’ll be able to find out how to get some of these reflectors which I think are absolutely great actually, I think I might pinch one before we finish. But thanks very much to all of you who’ve written in and thanks again to Andrew and Michelle for coming in, and just remember that as the nights get darker be safe and be seen, that’s the main message, so thanks for watching and we’ll see you next time. Bye bye