H: Jayne Constantinis, Host
J: Jan Fry, Parentline Plus

J: Hello

H: Jan thanks very much for coming in to talk to us. Tell us first of all what does Parentline Plus actually do?

J: We’re a national charity that looks after and works with parents, and we have a range of services, so we’re there any time, any time that a parent wants to talk about things. What is our strapline perhaps sums it all up – it’s because instructions aren’t included. And that’s our line. No family is the same, no parent’s the same, no child’s the same, but you can talk to us and we’ll give parent to parent advice throughout everything, all the ages of a child

H: Because of course you’re a parent too yourself

J: Yes

H: So very highly qualified. And as usual this is an interactive show so we very much want your questions for Jan. Just type them in the box below the screen, send them with your name of course and we’ll get through as many as we can. Let me just ask you this question before we get into the detailed problems. Is it any more difficult in this modern society to be a parent than it was say, for our parents?

J: I think it’s more difficult because society’s much more fractured. People have to move away from where their parents might live. In the old days as they say, you could go around the corner to your mum or your gran. That doesn’t happen any more, and one in four relationships and families are split up so things get more and more fractured and I do – the major thing that we get from parents is feelings of isolation and bewilderment

H: And there seems to be pressure to be the perfect parent in a way that I don’t remember in years gone by

J: Oh absolutely and you’ve got government saying things like if you don’t do this you’ll have to go to a parenting programme, you can be punished – so parents are terrified of asking for help because they think their children might be taken away from them, and that’s something we feel really strongly about at Parentline Plus, and do a lot of work around a campaign called “Just Ask” which emphasises that parents have a right to ask for anything they want

H: And if they’ve lost that support network as you say

J: Absolutely

H: Because of the way society’s changed there’s nobody else they can go to

J: Exactly

H: So let’s get straight in to some of the problems that people are sharing with us. William Bennett says “my daughter tells me she’s being bullied at school. I’ve contacted the school, they don’t seem to be improving the situation. I want to be a good dad and look after her of course. What’s the best thing to do?”

J: The best thing to do is to sit down with her and try to go through all the things, just reassure her that bullying is absolutely unacceptable, and try and make an appointment to go to the school with her, and what we advise is that you write down the questions that you want to ask and you get her involved, and the school needs to listen, and the school needs to help, and the best way of doing that is if you work together with the school and help your child through this

H: I mean it’s good in fact that she told him isn’t it?

J: It is

H: That’s a positive thing

J: Quite a lot of children, particularly girls, don’t talk about bullying, and girls are devious bullies, and so they use text messages and video phones and MySpace and Your Space and all those sorts of things and children can, normally at the age of about 9 up to 15, some girls are so tortured and they never tell their parents.

H: And with boys it’s much more physical isn’t it, as you say –

J: Yes

H: It’s this psychological thing that girls do

J: Yes in the boys it’s the big gang thing and then you get some levels of violence and that in itself is horrendous and your child might be suspended, or excluded and you don’t know where to go for help, and we’ve got a leaflet that’s on our website called Be Someone to Tell and it goes through every single step including if you’re a parent of a bully, which is another huge issue that’s not really addressed you know it’s under the carpet. So we try to help parents as much as we can about bullying

H: We hear more about bullying these days. Is there more of it, or are we just more aware of it?

J: I think there is more bullying. I think people are much more upfront. There are, as I said, there’s all the cyber bullying that goes on. There are just many more ways to bully someone, but I think that the government are making a lot – they’ve invested a lot of money and encouraging children and schools and parents to work to stamp out bullying, and so I think it’s just much higher on the agenda. I can’t say whether it – I’m sure it went on before, but it was never so dramatic and talked about

H: And often the line used to be “deal with it” – the child – deal with it yourself or show that you’re a man or whatever

J: Yes, hit back

H: Exactly, rather than the going to the teacher kind of softly, softly thing – but you don’t think that’s a good idea?

J: I don’t think that’s a good idea at all, and I don’t think it’s softly softly either. I mean most schools have some really good systems and you can have a peer or a mentor that looks after you, and there should be some liaison between you and the bully, and particularly for the parents. And every school has to have an anti-bullying policy, and we would advise all parents to ask their schools to see that so they know what to expect if their child is bullied

H: IS this something that you get a lot of calls and –

J: Huge amount. Huge amount.

H: I mean you know it must break your heart when your child is being picked on at school mustn’t it?

J: Yes. And I mean there was one last week where a mother had – her daughter had said oh I got a few text messages, and she left her phone behind, and the mother looked at the phone and there were 128 texts, vicious texts from a gang of girls, and that’s the level that parents out there are having to – they just don’t know what to do

H: Let’s move onto another area, related I suppose – Kelly wants to know “how can I get my kids to open up more to me without forcing them? I feel hurt that they turn to their friends and not to me for advice.” Of course it could be about bullying couldn’t it, or any other issue

J: Well this is what people call peer pressure and I wonder if her children are probably – it really starts, the influence of the gang and the peers starts about 11, goes on up, and we did some work quite recently about peer pressure because parents are saying to us, just as Kelly does, oh we’ve – I just feel my influence has gone, they’re listening to the kids, they’re listening to role models and it’s nothing to do with us, and in fact we talked to some older young people who looked back and said we never thought that! Our parents were our rock, ok so we might have done things and experimented with our friends, but our parents were key and I think that’s what Kelly must hold onto, but don’t nag them. I mean I made those mistakes with my teenage boys, don’t push them to talk to you, they’ll talk to you when they need to, and what you need to say I think is I’m here if you want to talk about anything really. And some people get worried about bringing up stuff about risky behaviours, about binge drinking and drugs etc with teenagers and some parents tell us that using like Eastenders or one of those shows, the storyline there is a really good way of bringing up the subject and things like that

H: I mean it’s a classic thing when they come home from school – “how was your day?” Fine. And you want more don’t you and you try to get more but

J: I think we try to tell parents about – they’re telling us it’s earlier and earlier so we talk about pre-teens as well, that teenagers – it’s a natural thing for teenagers to break away and want their own time and their own space, and they’re not your little child any more, and you have to grow with them to that new way, and it’s difficult, I’d be the first one to admit it. But you come out the other end with some fantastic young adults so just hang in there

H: I suppose that loss of influence for the parents

J: Exactly

H: Is a really difficult stage

J: Well loss of sort of being there, you know they go straight up to their room to play their shades or talk on the phone or whatever, and you feel where have they gone, where are my babies?

H: Yes yes. So that was Kelly wondering about how to get them to open up more. Natalie has a different problem – “my 7 year old girl Hayley is becoming obsessed by being thin. How can I promote healthy eating?” She’s very worried about anorexia

J: Yes we are very worried about body image and about how it seems to be getting younger and younger and younger. On our website there are some special links to some specialists who can help with the message to give, but the healthy eating I think you just have to quietly and slowly but surely get that through. And don’t frighten her, and don’t bribe her to eat, but you’ve got to do something now because if she is starting now to think about “I must be thin, I must be thin” – at 7 it’s so young. I mean it’s wrong any time but at 7 it seems far too young

H: And this is very much a modern phenomenon isn’t it?

J: It is, it is

H: And it seems to be getting worse

J: Yes and I think, I mean if she can encourage her child to always eat say the 5 pieces of fruit a day, to eat some things that you can say aren’t fattening but equally are good for you, to get her to feel that there are different things that taste really nice. And of course you have treats and you have chocolate or whatever but you have to watch really carefully to see that she isn’t just moving her food around and are there any warning signs like that?

H: And what about the business of, you know how do you talk about these super-thin models that you see all over the television? Is it worth trying to reinforce with our daughters in particular, messages about how hideous most of them look -

J: Yes

H: That’s its not attractive, it’s not healthy

J: Yes

H: Is that something that we can do?

J: Yes absolutely, and a mother, and also a friend of mine was saying that how she got through to her daughter was to tell her that she talked to her son’s friends who were teenage boys, and they hate skinny girls, they hate them, so little jokey things like that to get them to think you know they’re hideous, look at them, they don’t have any beauty really, they look gaunt and -

H: Yes. Except of course the media is then giving contradictory signals because they’re up there aren’t they as icons? The fashion and -

J: Well I think there is a bee in their batten isn’t there, they are increasingly shops aren’t selling size 0 etc and you see it all the time that this is wrong

H: Yes, good. I hope so, I mean -

J: So do I, I think it’s really worrying

H: It’s very concerning

J: And I think look, the fashion industry and the retail industry have a responsibility that they really have to take on board

H: Thank you for that. Ian wants to know “when do you think we should talk to our children about sex education?” I’m sure this is a question you get asked a lot

J: We specialise at Parentline Plus at – we have a campaign that’s funded by the government, which is all about encouraging parents to talk about sex and relationships, and really what we say is if you’re communicating, when you’re talking to a small child, say like your toddler was asking questions about the body and how it works, you go on, carry on through that, you’re going to find it much, much easier, and the way you talk about sex and relationships with your children is very dependent on what age group they are, and again on the website we go into great detail about that, and we give lots of tips and strategies how to keep that talking, because research shows, like in – everyone always mentions the Netherlands, but they are amazing. The more you talk to your children about sex and relationships, and the earlier you talk about it, the less likely they are to have early, unprotected sex. And equally research shows that children want to talk about it with their parents, so put those two together, and we can make a difference, because you know the UK still has this really high rate of teenage pregnancy

H: We’re the worst in Europe aren’t we?

J: Yes we are yes and we really need to be much more confident, it’s the British tight – such a nervous, people are nervous about it

H: Yes. Interesting when you say that children want to – I’m surprised you say they want to talk to their parents because my impression has always been that it’s just too embarrassing, but what you’re suggesting is if you start early enough -

J: Exactly

H: And it’s part of everyday conversation

J: Exactly

H: If people want to talk, particularly about a subject like this that you know we are a bit uptight about, can you just give us the number that people can ring to have you know a one-to-one conversation?

J: Well anyone can ring Parentline about anything, and the number is 0808 800 22 22

H: Great

J: And the call takers are people who – again, they’re all parents and they’ve been specially trained to talk through some of these tips and strategies that will help you with this, and also to help you if you think your child might be having unprotected sex or might be pregnant, they can help you with what to do next

H: Great, thank you for that. And if you’ve got a question that you’d like to ask Jan right now then do please send it in, just write it in the box below the screen, send it with your name, we’ll get through as many as we can in the rest of the show. Now Helen thinks her son may be gay. Should she ask him outright or wait for him to open up. She’s worried for him

J: Again, there’s no one right way to do it, it entirely depends on her son, but it sounds like she has a good relationship with him and perhaps she could take him out they could have some time together, but not make it into a big issue

H: Yes

J: But what she has to do I think is to make the climate within the family seem open and so he is relaxed enough to say it, because he might feel that they’re going to judge him and it’s so important, and they obviously get on well, and she’s not going to judge him and she’s not saying anything in her email that makes me feel that she feels it’s wrong

H: No

J: So I would encourage her to just be there and open and say you can talk to me about anything at any time, you know that

H: It’s a bit like you were saying earlier about being the rock, being there, creating an atmosphere where you are there

J: Absolutely

H: Whatever it is they want to say to you but without trying to niggle away, tell me, tell me

J: Oh that’s the worst thing to do

H: Isn’t it? I know we all do it don’t we

J: Exactly

H: How – to what extend is our experience of being parented influential in the way we parent?

J: I think it’s very influential, which is a worry for some parents who may feel they may not have had very happy childhoods. We get a lot of calls from people, and emails where they have hated school and got nothing from school and so they feel they’re letting down their child because they don’t know what their kids are doing at school, there’s all these different things, so I think there is a change, and we are being as parents, being made to feel far more responsible for what happens at the end and the pressure from the media makes it very difficult I think for parents

H: You’re right, you know I’ve had conversations where we talk about creating a human being, the pressure to – that’s a bit extreme but you know what I mean?

J: Absolutely

H: You know what you’re doing to and with your child is shaping the person they’re going to be, and that is a huge responsibility

J: It is a huge responsibility

H: I don’t think my parents ever talked in terms like that

J: No. I’m sure they meant to, and sensed it

H: Yes yes

J: But it wasn’t out there in the way it is now

H: No exactly. We all seem to talk about it all the time

J: Yes and I always wonder whether there are too many expectations as well, and I don’t think our parents had that many expectations, they just got on bringing up their kids as best they could

H: Yes

J: And I think all parents want to do the best they possibly can for their kids, but now I think these – today parents are under pressure to do even better all the time

H: We all need to maybe just relax a little bit – do you think?

J: Oh absolutely

H: Lucy would like to know, she caught her 14 year old daughter smoking, she’s worried she’s hanging about in the wrong circles, should she ban her from seeing certain friends? That’s a tricky one isn’t it?

J: Well, I probably – it won’t make much difference, if Lucy wants to go and see – oh sorry is Lucy the mother?

H: Lucy’s the mother. We haven’t got the daughter’s name, but she’s 14

J: She’s 14, at that age -

H: She can do what she wants

J: She’ll be with a gang – she will try things. Again, when we talk, to parents and older teenagers or young adults they all say well you have to try, this is the bit of the experiment. I think that it’s incredibly important that parents try without nagging to get over the consequences of risky behaviours, but at the same time understand that there is a level of experimentation. Think about what they did when they were teenagers, smoking behind the bike shed you know all that

H: Should you admit that to your child, should you say “well when I was 14 I did that and then I decided smoking was rubbish so I stopped”?

J: If you have that sort of relationship with your child that that’s the sort of thing, and that’s what I did with my kids, exactly like that, but everyone has their own different way of approaching it, but outright banning may actually negate lots of other good things that you have with your relationship because there’s going to be resentment, there’s going to be conflict, and then you get through into the really big teenage nightmares and they may stay out all night and you – what can you do?

H: It’s that pushing of the boundaries

J: Yes

H: Isn’t it?

J: They’re always experimenting, always pushing the boundaries, that’s a really good way of putting it

H: Well my 2 ½ year old is doing it now, so at 14 – I think there’s going to be a gap in between isn’t there? Now Deidre has sent us a question, she and her husband separated 3 months ago, the children are not coping without having the father around and becoming very badly behaved. She wants to know how she can restore a bit of discipline in the home. I think the – Mark – the husband – was in charge of all of that

J: That’s a real problem because her children will be hurting. I mean the research shows and parents tell us, and children have said so many times that they feel it’s their fault when their parents break up, and their lack of discipline, the way that they’re banging against the edges is probably their way of showing their pain, their anger because they’re angry because they don’t know what to do and I think you’ve got to step back from it and you also need the best possible way of doing it is to be able to talk to your ex-partner so that you’re both giving the same messages, but shouting at them and trying to be disciplined at this stage when they’re going through so much pain, I think to try a bit more comfort and understanding, quietness might help their kids to come to terms with it and then to come back to where they were, and I really think that it’s not advisable to have one parent whose in charge of discipline, you know this is something that parents need to do together and find their own way and this is going to be hard for her now, but again there are specialist organisations like Relate etc and those links are on the site where she can talk more and learn more about it

H: But possibly cut them a bit of slack -

J: Oh absolutely

H: At this early stage

J: Absolutely, there’s lots of pain and anger there

H: And it is often isn’t it a problem when one parent is the disciplinarian and the other is perceived to be the slightly softer one, and there can often be a kind of undermining can’t there of the discipline

J: Yes there can and that’s why in many respects it is inadvisable because they can play you off one against the other, and when you’re separated that can become really really difficult

H: Yes

J: And they’re using it as bribes to make you feel guilty

H: Very difficult times

J: It is a very difficult time

H: Meredith has a beautiful daughter, 3 years, and she gives her willingly all of her time. Meredith has no parents and the friends are all working. She’s 24 and sometimes finds that she can’t manage to spend any adult time because she finds it very difficult to get a babysitter. She’s spiralling into depression and desperately doesn’t want that to affect her little girl. “Am I overlooking something obvious?” Interesting that she’s saying I I, I’m not sure if she’s on her own, it doesn’t say does it?

J: It does sound as if she is on her own

H: It sounds as if she’s on her own doesn’t it?

J: Yes

H: And with no parents that support network has gone

J: Deeply isolated and again that’s the one thing that so many lone parents – you know 50% of the calls to Parentline are from lone parents who are feeling incredibly isolated, and they don’t know where to turn and they don’t know what to do best for their child, and they’re doing more work and childcare’s too expensive and we encourage them to go – you know there are a lot of things going on within communities, and school can help her get more, get childcare because there’s now childcare vouchers and children centres are doing – because Meredith’s really small, she’s 3 isn’t she?

H: Yes

J: She should be getting help from government on childcare and through that try and find some of the groups of parents, for instance we run a program with four other charities called Horizons, which is all about lone parents coming together and helping each other and it focuses on debt but the first thing that we try to help them with is to try to break down their isolation to build up their confidence. She needs to try and find out more, and again if she rings Parentline, we can help her and point her in the right direction

H: Fantastic yes she should definitely do that by the sounds of it. Let’s just have the number- well I’ve got the number 0808 800 22 22. Helen, in fact back on to single parents says “I find it really hard being a single parent, is there a forum on the Parentline Plus website where we can get together and share our experiences?

J: Yes there is

H: She can meet Meredith for sure

J: Yes there’s message boards which is called the Horizons board and she can go straight in there, and it is one of our most popular message boards. It’s amazing like an online community, you can find friends and talk -

H: Yes and it is amazing isn’t it when you’re feeling a bit low how that bit of support, people saying the same things that you’re feeling can be incredibly, you know such a boost to your morale

J: Oh so supportive yes

H: Can’t it?

J: I’m not alone is what we hear so many times

H: We’ve run out of time sadly, we could go on for another 3 hours. Just any last nuggets of advice for parents out there who are trying to be perfect?

J: Don’t worry about being perfect, you just keep on doing what you know – give your child love and support and you’re just the most important thing to your child and don’t ever feel you’ve failed

H: Thank you very much

J: It’s a pleasure

H: Very very good advice. And thank you for watching, I hope you found it as useful as I have. The number if you’d like to call and have a one-to-one conversation is on the screen now and the website address is www.parentlineplus.org.uk thanks for watching, thank you to Jan

J: Bye

H: See you again soon. Bye bye